gunnersman Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Couldnt find this in the search. What is the effectiveness of sandbags? I have mixed results. I have attacked heavy guns pointblank with my tanks and it takes a full turn or more to take them out(granted they only AP rounds), however, I have had my own guns taken out by other heavy guns at a distance and arty by close hits. Both cases the guns were in foxholes. Or are sandbags just for looks? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 Couldnt find this in the search. What is the effectiveness of sandbags? I have mixed results. I have attacked heavy guns pointblank with my tanks and it takes a full turn or more to take them out(granted they only AP rounds), however, I have had my own guns taken out by other heavy guns at a distance and arty by close hits. Both cases the guns were in foxholes. Or are sandbags just for looks? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 Couldnt find this in the search. What is the effectiveness of sandbags? I have mixed results. I have attacked heavy guns pointblank with my tanks and it takes a full turn or more to take them out(granted they only AP rounds), however, I have had my own guns taken out by other heavy guns at a distance and arty by close hits. Both cases the guns were in foxholes. Or are sandbags just for looks? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Originally posted by gunnersman: I have attacked heavy guns pointblank with my tanks and it takes a full turn or more to take them out(granted they only AP rounds)...If you are taking guns out with AP in only a turn or two, you are doing well. It probably took the real life tankers longer than that. What are you complaining about? ...however, I have had my own guns taken out by other heavy guns at a distance and arty by close hits.How many hits? What caliber? How close? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Originally posted by gunnersman: I have attacked heavy guns pointblank with my tanks and it takes a full turn or more to take them out(granted they only AP rounds)...If you are taking guns out with AP in only a turn or two, you are doing well. It probably took the real life tankers longer than that. What are you complaining about? ...however, I have had my own guns taken out by other heavy guns at a distance and arty by close hits.How many hits? What caliber? How close? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Originally posted by gunnersman: I have attacked heavy guns pointblank with my tanks and it takes a full turn or more to take them out(granted they only AP rounds)...If you are taking guns out with AP in only a turn or two, you are doing well. It probably took the real life tankers longer than that. What are you complaining about? ...however, I have had my own guns taken out by other heavy guns at a distance and arty by close hits.How many hits? What caliber? How close? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I get the impression sandbag positions are about as useful as being behind walls. I've never really set out to discover the truth about this however. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I get the impression sandbag positions are about as useful as being behind walls. I've never really set out to discover the truth about this however. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I get the impression sandbag positions are about as useful as being behind walls. I've never really set out to discover the truth about this however. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 You're right, Treeburst. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 You're right, Treeburst. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 You're right, Treeburst. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted March 26, 2004 Author Share Posted March 26, 2004 Michael, I have a very slow connection at home so I dont get on the internet too often. My point, I am at work and I dont remember the name of the scenarios I played and made the observations. My Brit tanks were at pointblank, shooting over the side, shooting AP and coax MG, for over one turn. So it lead me to believe these sandbags were good to have around. Well, at another scenario, where I played the French on the defensive, where there is a trap set up for the Germans, I set up my 75mm gun in a foxhole in sandbags. Later in the scenario a large calibre (made big holes in the ground, I dont remember the size, it deffinitely wasnt 81mm, probably 150mm) arty round landed a few meters away and knocked out my gun. There was another instance in the same scenario where another one of my 75mm guns in an exact same type position was taken out by another 75mm field gun round landing a few meters away. So this lead me to think maybe sandbags arent that great. If this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted March 26, 2004 Author Share Posted March 26, 2004 Michael, I have a very slow connection at home so I dont get on the internet too often. My point, I am at work and I dont remember the name of the scenarios I played and made the observations. My Brit tanks were at pointblank, shooting over the side, shooting AP and coax MG, for over one turn. So it lead me to believe these sandbags were good to have around. Well, at another scenario, where I played the French on the defensive, where there is a trap set up for the Germans, I set up my 75mm gun in a foxhole in sandbags. Later in the scenario a large calibre (made big holes in the ground, I dont remember the size, it deffinitely wasnt 81mm, probably 150mm) arty round landed a few meters away and knocked out my gun. There was another instance in the same scenario where another one of my 75mm guns in an exact same type position was taken out by another 75mm field gun round landing a few meters away. So this lead me to think maybe sandbags arent that great. If this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted March 26, 2004 Author Share Posted March 26, 2004 Michael, I have a very slow connection at home so I dont get on the internet too often. My point, I am at work and I dont remember the name of the scenarios I played and made the observations. My Brit tanks were at pointblank, shooting over the side, shooting AP and coax MG, for over one turn. So it lead me to believe these sandbags were good to have around. Well, at another scenario, where I played the French on the defensive, where there is a trap set up for the Germans, I set up my 75mm gun in a foxhole in sandbags. Later in the scenario a large calibre (made big holes in the ground, I dont remember the size, it deffinitely wasnt 81mm, probably 150mm) arty round landed a few meters away and knocked out my gun. There was another instance in the same scenario where another one of my 75mm guns in an exact same type position was taken out by another 75mm field gun round landing a few meters away. So this lead me to think maybe sandbags arent that great. If this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 There might be a difference between the effects caused by two-pounder AP + MG fire and 150mm HE, don't you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 There might be a difference between the effects caused by two-pounder AP + MG fire and 150mm HE, don't you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 There might be a difference between the effects caused by two-pounder AP + MG fire and 150mm HE, don't you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I asked this same question awhile ago and the answers never were particularly authoritative. At the time the consensus was (if memory serves) about the same concealment and protection as heavy building without the overhead cover. But that was only an initial 'seat-of-the-pant' impression from the board. In one little test I couldn't see how dropping a pillbox into a sandbag emplacement made any difference at all to the outcome! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I asked this same question awhile ago and the answers never were particularly authoritative. At the time the consensus was (if memory serves) about the same concealment and protection as heavy building without the overhead cover. But that was only an initial 'seat-of-the-pant' impression from the board. In one little test I couldn't see how dropping a pillbox into a sandbag emplacement made any difference at all to the outcome! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I asked this same question awhile ago and the answers never were particularly authoritative. At the time the consensus was (if memory serves) about the same concealment and protection as heavy building without the overhead cover. But that was only an initial 'seat-of-the-pant' impression from the board. In one little test I couldn't see how dropping a pillbox into a sandbag emplacement made any difference at all to the outcome! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 It's the same as a stone wall in terms of exposure. If oyu've got it on a hill of some sore, then it's possible for the enemy to shoot straight in over the sides and the sandbags count for nought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 It's the same as a stone wall in terms of exposure. If oyu've got it on a hill of some sore, then it's possible for the enemy to shoot straight in over the sides and the sandbags count for nought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 It's the same as a stone wall in terms of exposure. If oyu've got it on a hill of some sore, then it's possible for the enemy to shoot straight in over the sides and the sandbags count for nought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: I asked this same question awhile ago and the answers never were particularly authoritative. At the time the consensus was (if memory serves) about the same concealment and protection as heavy building without the overhead cover. But that was only an initial 'seat-of-the-pant' impression from the board. That assumption is wrong. The major difference is that the TacAI does recognize the building as cover, but doesn't recognize rises, walls and sandbags. Inside the sandbags you have foxhole in the open which is basically NIL when HE comes flying in. I also think walls (and sandbags) cannot actually be hit by direct fire HE, only by smallarms (resulting in lower firepower). BTW, CM buildings do not provide any overhead cover to start from. They have their basic protection value and that applies to fire or bursts from all directions. In one little test I couldn't see how dropping a pillbox into a sandbag emplacement made any difference at all to the outcome! I can't test right now but I would assume it makes it hulldown. Which would be utterly useless since CM pillboxes always die of firing slit penetrations when no Churchill AVREs are around. And since being hull-down raises the chance to get hits on the firing slit (analogous to the Panzer IV turret issue) it will actually make things worse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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