Michael Dorosh Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Originally posted by Dave H: Okay, maybe not the worst general, but the general who made the worst single mistake in WW2 has to be Lt. General Lesley J. McNair. I'm not talking about his theories about tank destroyers versus tanks, either. No, this was the commander of all American ground forces who decided to get a front row seat for the beginning of Operation Cobra and was killed when the Allied bombs fell short. Sometimes staying behind the lines is not such a bad idea. I hope you're being tongue in cheek. There were numerous incidents of USAAF and RAF short bombings - look at TOTALIZE a few days later when MGen Keller and 3 Cdn Div HQ got pasted - several miles behind the front. Would you villify Simon Buckner as well simply because he got killed by hostile fire? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Originally posted by Dave H: ...who decided to get a front row seat for the beginning of Operation Cobra...Wasn't he actually there the day before Cobra was supposed to start? The Air Force got mixed up about the dates and some bombers dropped a day early and some of the bombs fell on our guys. They bombed some of our guys the next day too, when the offensive kicked off for real. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 No, COBRA was planned to start on the first day, but was cancelled at late notice. Some of the a/c were already airborne and couldn't be recalled. And they bombed short. As you say, the next day they managed to short-bomb again, but by then McNair was already dead ... [ August 05, 2005, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Originally posted by JonS: No, COBRA was planned to start on the first day, but was cancelled at late notice. Some of the a/c were already airborne and couldn't be recalled. And they bombed short.That's what I said, but in a different way. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I hope you're being tongue in cheek. There were numerous incidents of USAAF and RAF short bombings - look at TOTALIZE a few days later when MGen Keller and 3 Cdn Div HQ got pasted - several miles behind the front. Would you villify Simon Buckner as well simply because he got killed by hostile fire?I believe you'll find the other general officers who were killed were not thousands of miles away from their duty stations like McNair, who was a staff officer in Washington DC. I'm guessing if he hadn't decided to play the tourist he may have survived even the US Army Air Corps' precision bombing. I'll bet not one single bomb in Operation Cobra landed anywhere close to the Washington Barracks. That's the big mistake McNair made, IMHO. What is surprising to me is finding sites that mention McNair's death on "the beaches of Normandy". That's stretching the truth a good long way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roqf77 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 he was visting front line troops to see how things were going. do you think he would of been a better officer if he didnt care? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Originally posted by Dave H: I believe you'll find the other general officers who were killed were not thousands of miles away from their duty stations like McNair, who was a staff officer in Washington DC.He had just been reassigned to command the First US Army Group (FUSAG), the notional force in southeast England tasked to make the Germans think that the main Allied invasion was yet to come. He had relieved General Patton who was taking over 3rd. Army. But it seems that you are right about him playing tourist. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCHRD Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Meklis was never an army officer in command of troops. He was a political officer, a commissar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dave H: I believe you'll find the other general officers who were killed were not thousands of miles away from their duty stations like McNair, who was a staff officer in Washington DC.He had just been reassigned to command the First US Army Group (FUSAG), the notional force in southeast England tasked to make the Germans think that the main Allied invasion was yet to come. He had relieved General Patton who was taking over 3rd. Army. But it seems that you are right about him playing tourist. Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Well he was the commander of U.S. Army Ground Forces and so had every right to be anywhere he wanted. At least he wanted to see if the army he designed was actually working as opposed to staying in the ivory tower and assuming all was going according to his plans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Well he was the commander of U.S. Army Ground Forces and so had every right to be anywhere he wanted. At least he wanted to see if the army he designed was actually working as opposed to staying in the ivory tower and assuming all was going according to his plans. I don't know if he retained his position as Commander of Ground Forces when he assumed command of FUSAG, but I doubt it. On the other hand, it is perfectly understandable to me that he would, as you say, be interested to see how things were going at the front. So did Churchill. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikko H. Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 von Churov wrote: They met Hoepners 16th Armoured corpse No wonder the French lost -- they didn't expect to meet zombies. And armored zombies at that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 You can't kill the undead... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaska. Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 It's just one corpse, Hoepners 16th. Don't know where the 15 previous ones went, though. Anybody know ? Besides, you can blast that thing to pieces with tanks, then run over the remains. No zombie is going to survive that. :mad: :mad: :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Don't the pieces reassemble themselves at midnight? I heard that it takes a thermonuclear explosion to vaporize them completely, and that only if they are at or near ground zero. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Holy water burns them nicely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Churov Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by Sergei: Holy water burns them nicely. Well,maybe Frenchmen had none of it. My mistake! But the funny one. Nice alternate piece of WWII history. Ghosts and Gobilins vol 16. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikko H. Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 It's just one corpse, Hoepners 16th. Don't know where the 15 previous ones went, though. Anybody know ? Goes to show what kind of supermen the Germans were. Even cats have paltry seven lives, but this Hoepner guy... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaska. Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by Mikko H.: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> It's just one corpse, Hoepners 16th. Don't know where the 15 previous ones went, though. Anybody know ? Goes to show what kind of supermen the Germans were. Even cats have paltry seven lives, but this Hoepner guy... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.