von Churov

I actually do sleep, but then again I dream about being in command of a platoon of green infantry that break on the first shot fired, myself included . Mies </font>

Well...yeah...in a way. Poshyol, poityi = go!, to go na = at, on, to ... hui = (this one is easiest to translate) a dick po'shyol 'na hui can be understood something like: "go to dick!" i.e. "go impale yourself on a dick" i.e. "f..ck you!" Cheers!

29...almost 30! Oh, ****! P.s. Could it be that this is the only thread that Michael Dorosh missed... Michael?

Pavlov's Huse or not, it looks exacly like in the Call of Duty FPS game. Well done.

A Twilight Zone :eek: Ta-na-na-nah! Ta-na-na-nah! :eek:

Fussbal, We agree pretty much. I don't go into the reasons for his arogancy...but he was arogant and no doubt about that. Maybe it's because of the success...but the fact remains. Yes, Kleist had K, and Hoth had H painted on their tanks but it was Guderian who introduced the fashion. They just followed what was "in" at the moment...like:"If Haintz can, why can we do that too?" What comes to my mind is a book by Brian Fugate, Operation Barbarossa. It broke my illusions of Guderian as a noble soldier. You should read it. Gruss meine freund

One more thing, He had all of the tanks under his command marked with large G (for Guderian) painted in white. If that is not a sign of egocentrism and arrogancy, I don't know what is? :mad:

I beg to differ and would like to know what in your opinion makes Guderian an arrogant piece of ****. Tschüß! Erich </font>

Guderians Panzer Leader is a good read. But also, reading between the lines one can see how arogant piece of **** this man was. Manstains Lost Victories is really a "must have". Memoirs of (most probably) the best general of WWII should be read. But, there's quite a propaganda here too, and as Guderian he whitewashes himself too. But if you manage to filter the propaganda out you have very good read. My favorites are: "Istroia Vtoroi Morovoi Voini" v 12 tomov. (History of WWII, in 12 volumes, Russian). A lot of propaganda...but a lot of read too. Also, WWII by Churchill is as good. Lot of Comonwealth propaganda, but also a lot of very good read. With these babies you don't feel sory when the book is done...It takes a months to go through them. A quantity is a quality by itself.

Standard Operating Procedure(s). In other words, standing directives that are to be followed in the specified circumstances. Michael </font>

One question. What does SOP really means? Sorry for my ingorance, but English is not my mother tongue.

My country (Montenegro, in former Yugoslavia) was in Italian occupation zone. When rebelion started in 13th of July 1941 the 98% of territory of Montenegro was liberated in 24 hours. The Italians were surrendering themselves in hundreds even though they outnumbered partisan rebels by factor of 3 maybe even 5. There are credits of a company sized units of Montenegrian partisans capturing entire (batalion sized) columns of Italians. There are reports that some of Italian troops surrendered as soon as they were attacked. And the equipment and ammo supply level of partisans was waaaay below that of Italian. This is not to say that MN Partisans fought so well (but they did, and Montenegro really was a warrior nation with strong military tradition, maybe even stronger than that of Prussians) but to show how bad Italians performed. But after the rebelion, Italians had sent the elite troops and things had changed...drasticly. They showed that they know how to fight, if they want so. The problem may be that for the most of the time THEY JUST DIDN'T WANT TO FIGHT.

This kind of commands like "Bug out!" (i like this one, it's short and clear) and "Barrage, 200m!Run!" (this one is for the purpose of drill, the real combat command is shorter i believe), are issued on the platoon or the squad level, so their commanders are in charge of makin subordinate units follow it. Yes, they do get scattered and a bit shaken and tired and everything...but it is way much better than to be perfectly still, entirely rested, and totally calm...and dead. That's why the direction doesn't really matter. The primary goal is to get your man out of there. Theoretically, the direction will be the one of the current facing, which is usually forward. It makes sence to me: it is much quicker to just start to run the same direction that you are already facing, then to turn and to maybe start stumbling over each other and then run head on with second echalon and distrupt them too. If you are assaulting, that means that you are near the enemy position and you are already on the move, so in case of the barrage just move on but MUCH FASTER, and get engaged in close combat with the enemy. It's way much better that to get engaged in the close encounter with it's artillery shells. Inside enemies position you should be "safe" from his artilery, all you have to do is to handle the enemy itself...and since you are the attacker you are supposed to have numerical superiority which is by the way decisive in close combat. Besides, running back under barrage in front of the enemy position is inviting a grim reaper for the harvest in your troop. Of course this is theory...In practice the circumstances determine the actual direction of high tailing. You don't have time to make a judgament calls, as soon as you see the barrage comming and you hear loud and clear "Bug out!" it seems to you like a hand of salvation. So you follow it. That's why there's an order. Sometimes, is the best way just to scatter in every possible direction, especially under light mortar fire, so the enemy cannot decide which side to readjust his fire to. Also,often in real life it is quite obvious which is the best direction to run to. But the question arises, what is the decent cover. Being in the rough doesnt mean that you are in any more safer position than being in the ploughed field. Imagine what the shell can do with rocks splintering around and therefore creating even more deadly projectiles, than there is a richocheting effect on the top of all. I read the credits of vets saying that sometimes they were safer in the deeply ploughed field, for after the impact shell were going deep into the soil and all of the shrapnells were flying straght up. And soil itself created no additional schrapnells. In the woods the aerial bursts can do more damage than anything else, even if you are entranched. So, that's why theory says that you don't run only if you are entranched. Of course, this does not mean that you should stand your ground even if you're dug in. (Now the WWI like shelling on the enemy trenches comes to my mind.) Anyway, that's why the commanding officers are for. To judge which is the best solution in the given moment and to act accordingly. So, now it's obvious why Stalin had called the arty "the queen of the battlefield" Cheers!

If you hit the dirt after being zeroed in by artillery...you're a dead meat. First thing to do after you have been hit by arillery in the open field is to GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE! :mad: And yes, the vets know what's comming so they tend to flee much sooner. In open, the sooner you get out of there the lower causalties you'll suffer. Worst thing to do is to hit the dirt and pray for barrage to end.That's just what the greens do. And that's just why they tend to suffer high initial causalties.Before they learn a few things. This is one of those things that privates have to learn in those famous "first couple of days" (or hours) in the battlefield to provide themselves with at least a slim chance of survival. UNDER BARRAGE (in the open field) DONT COVER YOUR HEAD! RUN! I don't know about the other armies (though I presume it's just the same) but in the Army of Serbia & Montenegro such situations are a part of basic infantry training. There is a special command in such situation, and it goes something like:"Enemy barrage! 200m (or 100m, or any distance) full run!" After this command is being issued the privates are expected to run the fastest they can, (generally in the direction of the current facing but if circumstances are such they can run in ANY direction;the point is not in the direction, but in the quick gettaway) regardles of any formation, order or equipment, for 200m and then AND ONLY THEN to take cover. And this drill is being used and rehearsed quite frequently, which shows it's importance in real combat situations. I doubt that this is much different in other armies.

Exactly! Average infantryman spends most of it's time digging. Eather he digs in in a newly taken position (as it is in this case) in order to prepare for expected enemy counterattack, or he additionally fortifies the position that he's been occupying for a while (so it's digging again) in order to meet potentian enemy assault (digging the shelters, strongpoints, nests, fake positions, communication magistrales to the rear...etc.), or he digs in in the new position that he just pulled back to (in order to prepare for meeting the expeceted continuation of enemy advance). Or he digs graves for his dead mates. Or he digs the ****holes. So, whatever happenes (advance, retreat, static situation etc.) infantry is digging (in) most of the time. :mad: They may deal more with their spades than they do with their rifles. That's how attacker too in CM Ops appears to have a foxoles in the morning. Infantry was quite busy during night. As for sleeping...It is quite low on the list of the priorities. For it is better in the morning to have your men dug in but tired, than to have them fully rested but with their pants down. Had one that had seen at least one artilery barage been offered a choice of eather diging in or taking a nap during a night, what do you think he would choose? No order for digging needed in such cases.Troops do that by themselfs. Cheers! [ September 28, 2005, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: von Churov ]