Newbie lost, help please!!

[aviator99]

Hi All,

What am I doing wrong? I'm only playing the tutorial and I have a brit soldier right in front of an Italian and my guy just hugs the dirt. How do i say "He's 2 inches in front of you, go kill!!" Because the next thing that happens is that this crumby Italian gets up and my guy surenders!!! I got 2 of my guys assaulting a foxhole and the MG is still firing yet my guys are inside it with him, Just what is going on?

Avaitor

[Akula2]

The short answer is to select your unit and use the "t" key to target then place it over the enemy and left click. You can also select your firing unit and use the space bar to bring up the command menu.

The long answer is:

Are your squads "in command" of a HQ unit? Is the machine gun? Are your guys at least regular troops? Veteran is better. Is the machine gun?

Try this.

Get a platoon of Brits and with 2 squads lay down some covering fire on the machine gun and use the third squad with the Advance command to close the distance with the machine gun at 50+m intervals.

Attacking like that is hard.

Whenever possible assault like that in the command radius of a HQ that has a morale bonus (heart). A combat bonus is also very useful (lightning bolt)

It sounds like your surrendering squad was taking heavy casualties in a short amount of time and was at least pinned down. This isn't uncommon. He probably would have broken or routed if he hadn't of surrendered.

Try laying down some fire on the machine gun to keep him from pouring it on you before assaulting him.

Someone will come along and say "Smoke!".

[willbell]

When you say your guy, do you mean your squad? Do you have only one figure representing your squad? Have you checked how many casualties the squad has taken? My guess is this, in the last two minutes your squad has gone through hell, almost all their buddies have been hit and they just don't have it in them to keep going. The game represents humans, not robots.

Also, that MG has a crew with other weapons on them. They aren't going to scatter, or die of a hear attack just because some loan survivor from a wiped out squad manages to flop into their fox hole.

[aviator99]

Thanks, some of it is getting clearer. :confused:

But:

How do I tell a squad to move (in their vehicle) and then when they get somewhere to get out and assault it?

Right at the moment I can get my guys up to a point but they then get slaughtered for half a minute because I cannot make them do anything more constructive. when time's up I can get the few survivors out and make them attempt an assault but they are by then nearing a rout anyway, and guessing how long to pause before setting off is just so clutzy there has to be something I am missing.......

Aviator

[willbell]

Aviator, those are the realities of combat. You think getting a dozen men off a vehicle and set up for an assault is easy?

The key to CMAK is to think in real time human terms.

Those guys in the vehicle first of all would rather not get out and assault the MG. Secondly, they can't read your mind. So you have to get them down and into some cover so you can get their attention. Then you need to explain to them which MG you want to knock out and what your plan is for doing it without getting everyone killed. None of those guys want to die. Secondly, if the group leader is not in contact with a headquarters unit then he will be a little unsure if he has the correct position and will have to double check where he is. It helps if he is in direct contact with the HQ.

Also, you can't expect humans to jump out of the back of a vehicle while being fired at and directly assault an enemy. With bullets flying they are all just trying to save their ass.

Think how difficult it is to guide someone by cell phone to an unknown location and you will have a small example of the difficulty of directing men on the battlefield.

[Lars]

To get a unit into a vehicle, drag the move command over one until you see "embark" Remember to give the vehicle a pause command or orders to wait till the squad's onboard.

To get off a vehicle, just give the squad a move command. Again, you need to set a pause on the vehicle (or full stop) to allow them time to get out.

For your machine gun problem, target one (or more) squad on the MG to keep it's head down, assault with the other. If you're within hand grenade range, do nothing, the squads will wipe it out.

[Macphail]

sounds like you really need some suppresing fire too. if you have some guys, further off, taking shots at the MG, he will be keeping his head don, and firing less, or not at all. like the last guy said, your soldiers will not jump off a truck, directly into MG fire. they are brave, just for being there, they are not suicidal (unless they really really trust their CO). assualting anything in this game with infantry is a suicide mission, unless you either pound the snot out of it, kill it, suppress the hell out of it, or just plain old suprise it, first.

[Macphail]

smoke.

[junk2drive]

If it's a good battle, I smoke even more.

[Macphail]

me too. but dont tell the cops.

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

If it's a good battle, I smoke even more.

I was pretty sure you were a doper.

One has to balance your clear, concise, and focused posts against your fascination with modding way weird outside the engine conflicts.

I've called the police, but asked them not to beat you unnecessarily when they take you into custody.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

I've called the police, but asked them not to beat you unnecessarily when they take you into custody.

How do you define "unnecessarily"?

Michael

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Seanachai:

I've called the police, but asked them not to beat you unnecessarily when they take you into custody.

How do you define "unnecessarily"?

Michael </font>

[aviator99]

:confused: OK I get the point but...

I'm the HQ guy and my Jeep is just over there aout 10 yards away. I want to get in it and drive over yonder so I can command the guys on the left flank. Why does it take two minutes? 1 to embark, and next minute to drive over there and disembark, why can't I just get in my vehicle and drive over there in one minute?

[aviator99]

And another thing:

Is there no way of linking commands at all?? I have some guys in an m/g bren carrier just behind the hill and I want them to just go to the top and lay down supressing fire on the foxole 300mtrs in front. But what happens, they get to the top start taking incomming and just sit there until they want to run away in a panic.

I have managed to win the tutorial once but by pure good luck I suspect. In general I fail because of all sorts of problems but mostly just because a minute is too long, I want to be able to say do this, then that , then that, if I could do that then fine but as it is I am running out of turns because it takes me 10 minutes to command guys to do what they are capable of doing in two, what am I missing?

Aviator

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by aviator99:

but as it is I am running out of turns because it takes me 10 minutes to command guys to do what they are capable of doing in two, what am I missing?

Aviator

What you're missing is that you're commanding various, disparate units in combat, not deciding to walk across the room to get a coke. Are the guys you're commanding actually in command? And have you stopped to consider that even if they are, that doesn't mean that every order is acted upon instantaneously?

It's not like every group of soldiers was in instant communication with every officer. For one thing, they didn't all, each and individually, have a radio. Bugger, I've recently been in a position to radio a building maintenance guy to shut off power to live wires that posed an immediate danger to tenants. Took well over 10 minutes to get that done, and no one was shooting at anyone.

It's a tactical combat game that tries for realism, not a FP shooter that gives instant control. You're commanding troops, not simply moving pieces.

I think the problem is that you're not considering the nature of the game.

[GreenAsJade]

Um, hang on a second.

Dude - do you have the manual?

If you do - open it to page 172 (Beginner's tutorial) and start there. Then read lots more.

If you don't ... why not?

CM is not a "pick it up and play it straight away game". The interface is pretty intuitive, but you have to know how the whole thing works to really be able to play it.

Then, as Seanachi said, you need to think about commanding troops and the realities of that.

(BTW, congratulations on being the first person to ever get a sensible reply out of Seanachi. I can't imagine how he managed to slip up like that!)

GaJ.

[_Axe_]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

Bugger, I've recently been in a position to radio a building maintenance guy to shut off power to live wires that posed an immediate danger to tenants.

I suggest that next time you try to fix the wire yourself.

While standing in a bucket of water. :mad: :mad:

[stikkypixie]

Originally posted by aviator99:

And another thing:

Is there no way of linking commands at all?? I have some guys in an m/g bren carrier just behind the hill and I want them to just go to the top and lay down supressing fire on the foxole 300mtrs in front. But what happens, they get to the top start taking incomming and just sit there until they want to run away in a panic.

Aviator

They don't just sit there, they are being surpressed themselves. Think about it, you're trying to surpress a dug in enemy, from the top of an open hill!!!

Who's going to win do you think?

There is no way of linking movement orders and fire orders though, but that shouldn't be a problem, because your guys are smart enough to shoot back on their own IF THEY ARE ABLE TO.

Try reading through the tutorial on the pdf manual.

Once you get the hang of the game, you'll never take it out of your cd drive again.

[Soddball]

Aviator, for your troops to successfully carry out an assault on that MG, the unit must be surpressed. That means he should be lying down before you race your troops up there.

Use machine guns and mortars to suppress the enemy unit. When he lies down, THEN you can assault the foxhole. Use a rifle squad with high experience (veteran/crack/elite) if you have it, and make sure that the rifle squad's Platoon HQ is in command range (red line) - a black line means they are out of command range and are more likely to run and hide rather than attack.

Don't forget to stop the mortars and MGs firing once your rifle squad is in the foxhole.

Soldiers surrender for several reasons, and they all contribute to the likelihood of surrender:

If the unit is 'routed' or 'panicked'.

If the unit is 'brittle' - that is, it has been routed in the past and has a little red box on its status bar.

If the unit is out of command radius - no red line linking it to a platoon, section, company or battalion HQ.

If the unit is surrounded by enemy forces.

That's why your unit surrendered, I suspect.

[Lars]

Originally posted by aviator99:

And another thing:

Is there no way of linking commands at all?? I have some guys in an m/g bren carrier just behind the hill and I want them to just go to the top and lay down supressing fire on the foxole 300mtrs in front. But what happens, they get to the top start taking incomming and just sit there until they want to run away in a panic.

I have managed to win the tutorial once but by pure good luck I suspect. In general I fail because of all sorts of problems but mostly just because a minute is too long, I want to be able to say do this, then that , then that, if I could do that then fine but as it is I am running out of turns because it takes me 10 minutes to command guys to do what they are capable of doing in two, what am I missing?

Aviator

You can somewhat. Clever use of the pause command will allow you to get a squad on a vehicle and moving in one turn, as I said before.

Example 1: Set a 30 second pause on the vehicle followed by a move or fast move. This gives the squad time to scramble on. On the next turn, give the squad orders to move off and when the vehicle gets to the end of it's move, the squad scrambles off. If necessary, because the vehicle arrived at the very end of the turn, give it another 30 second pause or it will zip off with the troops still on it. You've saved two turns over having everyone come to a full stop.

Example 2: Your squad in a Bren carrier. Try to time it so it gets to the top of the hill just before the turn is over. Better yet, have the carrier stop just before the top so the troops can get out without having the crap shot out of them. A vehicle is a much bigger target and will be seen for sure. If the squad "sneaks" up the short distance to the top of the ridge, that MG might not even spot you at all.

Hey, this all goes to hell if someone is shooting at you. It takes two or three squads to suppress a MG and all you did was give the MG a lone target. And at 300 meters where rifle fire ain't that great anyway. Look at the firepower tables and see where each unit is at it's best. Bring up more squads, get a mortar to put some indirect fire on it, or better yet, get a tank.

You should have been around for CMBO when we were all complaining that MGs were too weak.

[Other Means]

if a squad has a disembark order within 12m of the vehicle, they will get out immediately. if the waypoint is beyond this you will incur the order delay.

bear in mind, angle on the target is a force multiplier. if you get 2 shooters at 90 degree separation on the unit they will break a lot easier. more angle increases this.

a MG in cover is one of the hardest things to fight - that's why they make tanks. bring your HE chuckers up & drop a few on the foxhole & the MG will soon break...of course if you haven't killed all the ATG's you'll lose too much armour & make the assault falter later on but that's the fun of the game, seeing how the elements interact & learning how to use combined arms.

MG's stop infantry, tanks kill MG's. ATG's kill tanks, mortars kill ATG's. big arty kills everything but doesn't achieve a damn thing on it's own. infantry is the eyes for everything & gets most kills on the battlefield per arm.

of course, ATG's can kill arty spotters, broken tank crews can kill MG's & crack Tigers can bail under small arms fire - but hey, if you wanted something predictable play cards.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by aviator99:

...what am I missing?

That combat is a hell of a lot more chaotic and confusing than you, sitting in your comfy chair in a quiet room in a comfortable house, seem to credit it. In fact, it often took a while to get the attention of the men you want to give orders to, actually tell them what you want, and then get them in motion. Men who are being shot at are usually reluctant to a greater or lesser degree to break cover and actually do something. Those who lack this reluctance frequently become quickly deceased for some reason.

Michael

[PzTwt]

Try watching the assault up the beach in 'Saving Private Ryan'. That'll give a fair idea of the confusion inherent in combat, especially when troops are under fire.

First time I saw the film I stupidly thought 'they've buggered the sound' - then it dawned on me that with that level of incoming fire, no-one could hear a bloody thing, much less act on orders effectively...

[Ansbach]

Hi aviator99 - the way this game manages the control of your units can be a bit confusing at first. Hang in there and let us know how it's going...