CM Sniper Quiz

[slysniper]

Wanted to have a little fun.

Without cheating, I want you all to take a guess on game sniper abilities.

I remember some discussions on how under-performing they are in the game, lets see what you know?

Give the answer in percentage points. For a American Elite Sniper shooting at exposed tank commander at 100 yards, 200 yards, and 400 yards.

miss %, wound % and kill %. The three numbers should equal 100%

Example: 400 yard, 5% kill, 15% wound, 80% miss.

I doubt anyone is close without running test, and running test is cheating. No reward other than to see how close you get, so don't cheat, what would the point be, other than you had more time to waste than me.

Let us see who love their snipers in this game and knows the facts.

[ August 14, 2007, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: slysniper ]

[stoat]

Kill percentages are always higher in operations than in scenarios. Also the kill to would ratio should be the same at all three ranges, thanks to the game mechanics.

[slysniper]

Operations to scenarios I cannot answer, but your second statement is not correct in the least. Even if my numbers add a varience for propability, they will show that you do not know the mechanics of the game, and likely no one does except Steve, even after all these years.

So there is a clue for you all, the kill wound ratio is not the same at the three ranges.

[stoat]

Originally posted by slysniper:

Operations to scenarios I cannot answer, but your second statement is not correct in the least. Even if my numbers add a varience for propability, they will show that you do not know the mechanics of the game, and likely no one does except Steve, even after all these years.

KIA vs WIA is not determined until the end of the scenario. Then a certain percentage of the casualties become KIA while the rest are deemed wounded. To prove this, make a test scenario where a gun shoots at a vehicle. Run it until the vehicle blows up, the kind of explosion that no crewmemmber can escape. Then end the battle. Only a fraction of the crew will be KIA, never all of them. If this sniper thing is just a chance for you to show off how much you know about game mechanics, enjoy the ego trip. If not, you should know that your test results are influenced by the game coding as it relates to casualties.

[Shrike]

For a American Sniper shooting at...

I've got it. It's a trick question! There are no snipers. What do I win?

(I hope I'm not the only one who was thinking of making light of this through the Sharpshooter/Sniper distinction)

[slysniper]

KIA vs WIA is not determined until the end of the scenario. Then a certain percentage of the casualties become KIA while the rest are deemed wounded. To prove this, make a test scenario where a gun shoots at a vehicle. Run it until the vehicle blows up, the kind of explosion that no crewmemmber can escape. Then end the battle. Only a fraction of the crew will be KIA, never all of them.

I agree with this in that normally not all crew members are dead, no matter what type of explosion, so are you stating in operations that death is accounted for more correctly or are you stating that how the game derives causualties is always by this method. Can you state if this aspect is true in other causalty rates or is it programing that only affects tank crews. So even though you have pointed out this aspect it still does not factor into every other aspect of the game

If this sniper thing is just a chance for you to show off how much you know about game mechanics, enjoy the ego trip. If not, you should know that your test results are influenced by the game coding as it relates to casualties.

I do not claim to know anything about the game mechanics, I do know that my question has to do wth the game itself, so of course it is influenced by game coding, thus the point of the question. I also know that the results show that this concept you describe which I agree with in the application you have used. It does not appear to be involved at all in the same way with the number results that I have generated here in this application. Not to say the programming still does not have similar approuches- who knows execpt steve

Last, this was for those interested in a simple test of guessing what they think the game performs, not for someone that is looking to flame just because they see what they concider a incorrection on how the game just is not a perfect model of life.

Those that would enjoy this type of question might be long gone from the forum, many that are left, make me wonder what type of people they are.

[slysniper]

I hope I'm not the only one who was thinking of making light of this through the Sharpshooter/Sniper distinction)

I knew someone would say something, I prefer to think of them as snipers even though they are sharpshooters. Now do you have a guess, that is the question

[Bert Hamoen]

Well Sly,

someone else did the test already and posted it on another messageboard. According to his test, it makes a difference in accuracy what the experience level is of the sniper is. A vet sniper hits more often then a regular one and-so-on.

I won't give the answer because it would be a kind of cheating...

Link to snipertest: http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=39828

On the same forum there are some tests about the spotting ability and (in)visibilty of snipers too.

[stoat]

Originally posted by slysniper:

I agree with this in that normally not all crew members are dead, no matter what type of explosion, so are you stating in operations that death is accounted for more correctly or are you stating that how the game derives causualties is always by this method. Can you state if this aspect is true in other causalty rates or is it programing that only affects tank crews. So even though you have pointed out this aspect it still does not factor into every other aspect of the game.

I'm saying that the game always determines the number of KIAs by a certain perecntage, though the percentage will vary either up or down a few points to keep things from always turning out the same. While I can't be absolutely certain that this is how the game operates I have seen too many battles wherein each side took a relatively equal number of casualties (within 10 men of the other side) and had an almost equal number of men KIA (always within 10, mostly within 5) to believe that anything more dynamic is at work.

I do not believe that operations handle death more correctly, as the percentage of KIA is almost, and many times over, 50%. Maybe this symbolizes men returning to action after a battle or two, but it still seems a very high proportion of KIAs.

[slysniper]

Well Sly,

someone else did the test already and posted it on another messageboard. According to his test, it makes a difference in accuracy what the experience level is of the sniper is. A vet sniper hits more often then a regular one and-so-on.

I won't give the answer because it would be a kind of cheating...

On the same forum there are some tests about the spotting ability and (in)visibilty of snipers too.

Hey Bert, you are right, I forgot to mention a elite American sniper, the numbers at that site there are somewhat close but still not the same, his testing methods was a little weak in taking out some variences. But no question as to 500 meters being a waste of time. What I do see from his stats is it appears that the snipers perform differnty from nationality also, whether that is taking into account the weapon they are using or skill level difference is hard to say but it appears to be different.

Funny you should reply, Many of your tank commanders have fallen prey to my snipers

[slysniper]

I'm saying that the game always determines the number of KIAs by a certain perecntage, though the percentage will vary either up or down a few points to keep things from always turning out the same. While I can't be absolutely certain that this is how the game operates I have seen too many battles wherein each side took a relatively equal number of casualties (within 10 men of the other side) and had an almost equal number of men KIA (always within 10, mostly within 5) to believe that anything more dynamic is at work.

I do not believe that operations handle death more correctly, as the percentage of KIA is almost, and many times over, 50%. Maybe this symbolizes men returning to action after a battle or two, but it still seems a very high proportion of KIAs.

Not disagreeing, I know many of my games have the same feel in stats.

But I can tell you that my kill ratio in this test varied much more than a few percentage points, thus not a result that can hold this theory to be true.

[stoat]

Then I will quietly await the announcement of the test figures.

[MeatEtr]

It was verified years ago that actual kills vs. casaulities are determined at the end of a battle. So it doesn't matter whether your elite or regular sniper scored a hit, the odds of it being a kill are exactly the same. So answers, if any, should be given simply as hit% and miss%.

It's been a long time, but IIRC the hit chance increases by either 6%, 8%, or 10%. This was also verified quite a long time ago. I think it was a 8% increase per troop quality, not sure on this though. So if a regular sniper had a 22%(unknown to the player of course) chance to score a hit, than a vet would have a 30% chance.

[slysniper]

Since it appears that I am getting no takers, I might as well post the numbers and see what can be said about them.

At 100 yards

85% chance of a hit, 65% wound, 20% kill, 15% miss

At 200 yards

80% chance of a hit, 60% wound, 20% kill, 20%

miss

At 400 Yards

40% chance of a hit, 25% wound, 15% kill, 60% miss.

[bitchen frizzy]

How was your test done?

[JoMac]

Wow, talk about laser ranging. Why am I not surprised of CMs high percentage hit chance.

[bitchen frizzy]

Originally posted by JoMc67:

Wow, talk about laser ranging. Why am I not surprised of CMs high percentage hit chance.

Are those numbers high for a WWII sharpshooter?

[Bert Hamoen]

his testing methods was a little weak in taking out some variences

You should post this at The Blitz. The person who has run and posted the test has an ego the size of New York, so his response should be fun to read !

Many of your tank commanders have fallen prey to my snipers

Don't I know it ! I fear you've got a bunch of them and they are very hard to spot ! Even a "green" one !

[slysniper]

How was your test done?

No big trick to it, I set up a map with 10 fire lanes, thick woods between them so that only the unit can fire on the unit within that area, but I can run 10 test at a time. if you do not want a unit to run or retreat to help get results, put water around it so movement is stoped.

On this test I placed the sharpshooter in woods at the front edge and the tank at the given distance in the open. So each tank received only on shot from one sniper, normally taking 10-15 seconds in the first turn. all shots are at the same distance no varience.

When running the game I use hot seat mode, when doing this I also make sure to alternate which side is selected to start the game, I do not want any setting to be a possible impact.

I normally run the test enough times until I have decided I see a consistant data result from grouping to grouping of 10 matches, This could be as many as someone feels is needed. The more test, the better the acuracy of the numbers. I normally run a minimum of 4 or 5 games giving my 50 results per situation I am looking at, some others I have seen do much more, but I find their results do not differ much.

In this test I was amazed at how consistant the numbers were, each round only varied one hit except at the 400 yard range where I started to see numbers vary more from round to round.

What was interesting was the kill percentage climbed to the percentage of hits, not something you expect to see if the game as been programmed to calculate the figure within a certain percentage.

[ August 15, 2007, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: slysniper ]

[slysniper]

Wow, talk about laser ranging. Why am I not surprised of CMs high percentage hit chance.

LOL, back to old post, you should see how many post complain how poor snipers are in the game, these numbers seem high only compared to that. For a man that is a crafted skilled shooter like elite should represent, these numbers do not seem out of line. actually a little low for the close ranges with a non moving target.

[Nemesis Lead]

Here is a trick--on every turn unbutton and then rebutton your tanks. Your TCs will almost never be exposed. I can't remember the last time that I had a TC shot.

It takes sharpshooters out of the game. That is why I never use them on the defense. Anyone who uses them against me will never kill one of my TCs.

They actually have a more useful role as scouts if you are attacking.

Slysniper--if you want to see something really neat, see how close an elite sharpshooter can get to enemy infantry by moving (not even sneaking) over open ground.

You'll be shocked.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Problem with that is that a buttoned tank is much slower to react to a threat than an unbuttoned one leaving it vulnerable to ambushes with the unit getting the first shot usually winning the duel. By all means do the unbuttoning/buttoning trick if you know there's a sharpshooter threat out there but otherwise I would prefer to have the better reaction time to threats.

Regards

Jim R.

[Nemesis Lead]

Good point, but borg spotting usually does the trick, however. Keep your TC buttoned and safe!

One should have infantry around his armor at all times (unless the scenario does not permit it).

[Vixen]

Originally posted by Nemesis Lead:

Here is a trick--on every turn unbutton and then rebutton your tanks. Your TCs will almost never be exposed. I can't remember the last time that I had a TC shot.

It takes sharpshooters out of the game. That is why I never use them on the defense. Anyone who uses them against me will never kill one of my TCs.

They actually have a more useful role as scouts if you are attacking.

Slysniper--if you want to see something really neat, see how close an elite sharpshooter can get to enemy infantry by moving (not even sneaking) over open ground.

You'll be shocked.

I hope you inform your opponents that you use this oddity in coding with button/unbutton. I would say "cheating" but it might be a bit much.

[stoat]

I don't see it as cheating at all. If you want to reduce the effectiveness of your AFVs and the threat to their commanders from enemy snipers in one move, why shouldn't you be able to? Keeping a vehicle buttoned up when in the line of fire seems like good sense to me, not a gamey advantage taken from a coding uniquity.