REVS Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Did a search on "canister" in CMAK and nothing came up, so I thought I'd post this. In a recent game, my US Sherman was 220m away from a 250/9 German halftrack (the one with the short-barrelled 75mm gun that can fire canister). Neither of us had line of sight to each other. However, about 70m from my Sherman, along that very same line of sight, was a hapless bunch of broken Allied boys in a crater, hanging on for dear life. The boys were right on the ridge of the crest, about 150m from the German halftrack. So the halftrack fired canister at them, and while it had no further ill effect on my already broken boys, the canister round shocked the unbuttoned Sherman commander on the other side of the crest line. When you replay it from side on, and other angles, you can see the canister losing speed and "falling downhill" in a slight curve after it passes the crest line. What I don't know, and would like to know, is what is the range of canister? Was I just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and if I was 50m further back it wouldn't have affected me? That's how it looked to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I don't think CM models ballistic/physics that far... but I may be mistaken. Maybe the canister just blew away a couple of those infantry boys, and the Sherman crew saw that, hence the bad morale effect ? What's the Sherman's quality : Green/Reg/Vet ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 CM tracks the full path of each shell. If you happen to be in the way after the shell has missed it's intended target, bad luck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I remember reading somewhere here that it was not the case, and that basically the game checked wether it was a hit or miss (proba roll, probably), then calculated the error at random, adding the flight path between the tank and the impact point afterwards as mere eye candy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 Sgt Kelly That must be it, because your comment reminded me about an old CMBO game where one of my AFV missed shots against an enemy AFV took out my opponent's artillery spotter, who just happened to be on the next hill behind his own AFV, in some woods. I had completely forgotten about that occurrence until then. Kobal2: the AFV was regular. The canister coming through on a downwards trajectory is easy to see (actually looks quite cool :cool: ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Kobal2, there's two different things here. An AP shell that has missed won't hit another vehicle, not even if the trajectory would go through one. But all shells, even AP, fall down at some point, and there they can cause casualties or drop of moral to any soft targets based on their blast value just like if that point was an area target. That includes unbuttoned tank crews. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. BTW, is there a way to know/evaluate the suppression/firepower value of an AP shell ? I believe the blast radius listed in the tank's detail is for HE only, right ? So what if this bigass 105mm Sherman has only AP left yet is used to shoot at infantry, does it have any effect whatsoever, or is it 100% wasted ammo ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Probably it has just moral effect, like hand grenade. HEAT would be a different story, though. Look at the size of the explosion it causes, maybe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 That was a HE shot. You cannot see the graphical representation of canister in CMBB/CMAK as one single piece dropping height. It is a bunch of bullets. If you've seen one projectile it was HE. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I've seen/heard of AP shells causing casualties. Not common though, and more difficult to seewith EFoW 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 The original poster is confused, that is all. Nothing to see here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 How do you know that redwolf? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 Redwolf The original poster was not confused at all, thank you very much! It was canister. A whole bunch of little pellets spraying out like buckshot. How you can jump to that conclusion I do not know, but you are incorrect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I think, graphical display aside, that canister is modelled as a 'danger area', not unlike an explosive blast, that travels down a ballistic curve. If the area(volume?) passes over units other than the target, they get hit too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Originally posted by flamingknives: I think, graphical display aside, that canister is modelled as a 'danger area', not unlike an explosive blast, that travels down a ballistic curve. If the area(volume?) passes over units other than the target, they get hit too. I agree.You will also note that the canister shot spreads out as it travels further away from the gun.Also,to bring the limited effective range into play,its drops in altitude(I think). Revs, You cant post any screenies? :please: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 No, I don't have access to a host server for posting screenies, but if anyone is interested, I could email you the game turn (which shows what happens much better than a screenie, anyway). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Originally posted by REVS: Redwolf The original poster was not confused at all, thank you very much! It was canister. A whole bunch of little pellets spraying out like buckshot. How you can jump to that conclusion I do not know, but you are incorrect. You said "the canister round". There is no single round in the graphical representation of canister in CMBB and CMAK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 Hey Redwolf, that's just semantics gone mad! I reckon if you loose off a blast of canister at some schmo, you're entitled to call it a "canister round". That doesn't mean I think the canister is 'round', it means I think each blast is 'a round' of ammo! Anyway, doubting wolf, go check your email, I sent you the game turn so you could see the event for yourself. Cheers REVS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Originally posted by Kobal2: Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. BTW, is there a way to know/evaluate the suppression/firepower value of an AP shell ? I believe the blast radius listed in the tank's detail is for HE only, right ? So what if this bigass 105mm Sherman has only AP left yet is used to shoot at infantry, does it have any effect whatsoever, or is it 100% wasted ammo ? AP shells have reduced blast. Dunno if there is a common factor or if each gun and AP type is handled differently. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 I have got the feeling the cannister is treated much like a HE explosion in its effect. That is, once the cannister is shot its effect is a "footprint" in which there is a blast effect. In this area the direction from which the cannister comes doesn't matter much for the applying of that effect (other then that "footprint" is probably triangular, and the blast value tapers of from point of origin). This means that cover is applied only in so far that less exposure lessens the damage done, but any obstacles between the point of origin and the target dont stop the bullets. Support for this is that I not only have seen men hit out of los (from the firing unit) due to a rise, but also men behind a wall, or behind a house. The men *in* the house seem to get a cover bonus, but the men *behind* the house seem to get hit full force. (nb>: this is with limited experience, so I could be totally wrong). Bertram 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Pollock Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Ditto - brewed up a truck on the other side of a church with a canister blast from a T-34. Hadn't even spotted it and suddenly, there it was, an exploding truck. Originally posted by Bertram: I have got the feeling the cannister is treated much like a HE explosion in its effect. That is, once the cannister is shot its effect is a "footprint" in which there is a blast effect. In this area the direction from which the cannister comes doesn't matter much for the applying of that effect (other then that "footprint" is probably triangular, and the blast value tapers of from point of origin). This means that cover is applied only in so far that less exposure lessens the damage done, but any obstacles between the point of origin and the target dont stop the bullets. Support for this is that I not only have seen men hit out of los (from the firing unit) due to a rise, but also men behind a wall, or behind a house. The men *in* the house seem to get a cover bonus, but the men *behind* the house seem to get hit full force. (nb>: this is with limited experience, so I could be totally wrong). Bertram 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by Kobal2: BTW, is there a way to know/evaluate the suppression/firepower value of an AP shell ? I believe the blast radius listed in the tank's detail is for HE only, right ? So what if this bigass 105mm Sherman has only AP left yet is used to shoot at infantry, does it have any effect whatsoever, or is it 100% wasted ammo ? I think there is a firepower value listed for AFVs that carry AP only. Same for anti-tank rifles. IIRC, the blast value is 1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 'Shreks and 'zooks have blast rating for HC only ammo. It's between 3 and 5, IIRC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 In other words, AC rounds and bazookas are little better than a sling when dealing with grunts. Still, seems odd that very-heavy AC rounds won't do that big a hole in the ground - the TNT charge of a 158mm or 105mm AP round must be close to that of a 50mm HE, no ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 The solid shot ones are, well, solid, no explosive. The Hollow Charge ones and the HEAT ones: probably, but the charge is directed differrent. In a HE-shel it is used to propel shards of the shell casing in all directions, and in a n AP round it is used to direct a beam of energy (in the form of molten material) straight forward. So basically an AP round will only hurt if you happen to stand in its path, or if it hits something and you get stuck by flying pieces of whatever it has hit. Bertram 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.