GoofyStance Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I'm tinkering with a kill rings mod for the cannon barrels of AFV's and ATG's. I have several questions regarding the usage of such rings: 1) How commonly used were they? Were they used mostly by the Germans? 2) What was the usual practice for keeping a running score - were the rings transferred with the tank or gun commander, or with the whole crew, or was it a vehicle-specific issue? 3) Was it the usual practice to use a thick bar to denote 10 kills, and thin bars to denote individual kills? Were any other conventions commonly used? Thanks in advance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 1) Starting from late June '44, Finnish StuG's used them too. 2) Vehicle specific. I don't know, though, what was done when a gun was changed. Probably the rings were taken to the new gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I seem to remember that in the navy and air forces, kill marks belong to the ship/plane, not to the crew/pilot. I assume it's the same with tanks/guns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by Kobal2: I seem to remember that in the navy and air forces, kill marks belong to the ship/plane, not to the crew/pilot. I assume it's the same with tanks/guns. I guess that's represented in the game as well, where the kills of a KO'd gun or tank 'belong' to the gun, not the crew. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 In the case of Michael Whittman, the German Tank Ace with 80+ Kills, the Kill Rings went with him. He changed tanks a couple of times and the kill rings were painted on his new tank. IIRC, the same is true with the other German Tank Aces. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Which is funny, considering that he was just a tank commander, not a gunner. That pompous, snobbish twit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by Kobal2: I seem to remember that in the navy and air forces, kill marks belong to the ship/plane, not to the crew/pilot. I assume it's the same with tanks/guns. The only airforce that I know of that the kill marks went with the plane was the IJA/IJN. All the rest to the best of my knowledge had their pilots put the new marks on any new plane. Sometimes an ace pilot would let a less experienced pilot fly his aircraft but that is different. I think that individual records went with the men who made them. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrich0000 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 As a former Tank Commander, I take exception to your remark, Sergei. Sabers at dawn? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyStance Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Wittman's gunner, Bobby Woll, earned the Knight's Cross for his skill with an 88. So there was some official recognition of just who really earned the rings 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I should warn you, FDF trained me to destroy tanks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 This is kind of like the puzzle of what happens when an old knife has been through three new blades and two new handles... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 @Panther Commander : hmmm yes, now that you mention it... But did they paint over the kill marks on the old plane, in the odd case that it's still serviceable and given to another crew ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by Martyr: This is kind of like the puzzle of what happens when an old knife has been through three new blades and two new handles... You have to call Microsoft to reauthenticate the OS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by Kobal2: @Panther Commander : hmmm yes, now that you mention it... But did they paint over the kill marks on the old plane, in the odd case that it's still serviceable and given to another crew ? I don't think you get a new one if the old one still works... Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Depends, your squadron might be refitted with new models for example. Or *you* might get transferred to another unit for one reason or the other (like, being sent to the East Front for having made derogatory comments about your Obersturmvolksbahnpanzerführer-Leutnant or sumtink ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyStance Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Although this is off the topic, it's possible that pilots left perfectly good planes to go fly other makes / models. When the all-Me 262 Jagdverband 44 ("Squadron of Champions") was formed in early 1945, several pilots left their squadrons and went AWOL in order to join JV 44. Considering the squadron was made up of experten, these pilots probably left behind perfectly good prop-driven fighter planes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by GoofyStance: Wittman's gunner, Bobby Woll, earned the Knight's Cross for his skill with an 88. So there was some official recognition of just who really earned the rings Of course, without the TC, the tank may never have been in the right position at the right time to make the shot- or even alive to take the shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrich0000 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 It's a team effort. I think what Sergei was trying to say is that there is another crewmember who had a bit to do with all those kill rings... From my days as a TC: A good gunner makes you look REAL good. A bad gunner makes you look REAL bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Krupp Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Wittmann may not have been the gunner but if it wasn't for him half the kills would not have been made-in a tank every member contributes-the gunner may take the final aim and fire but without the commander to spot targets, prioratise, order to good locations and coordinate both the men in the tank and with other units you would be dead very quickly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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