Tero Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Just noticed in PBEM set in dusk visibility constrains you can see dust clouds kicked up by moving vehicles beyond the prevailing visibility limit. Has this been discussed in detail ? If so, directions would be appreciated. [ April 11, 2004, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Tero ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakovski Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Originally posted by Tero: Just noticed in PBEM set in dusk visibility constrains you can see dust clouds kicked up by moving vehicles beyond the prevailing visibility limit. Has this been discussed in detail ? If so, directions would be appreciated. Kinda kills FOW, don't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 I think this goes under the heading of a feature that cannot be comprehensively supported by the existing game engine. They really wanted to include the dust clouds, and mostly they are a boon, so I reckon the decision was justified, but some of the details don't work right. I'd be surprised if this wasn't noted during beta testing and the decision was to go ahead with it anyway. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Why shouldn't dust be visible under dawn or dusk conditions? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Kulin Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Maybe if you think of it like this it may help make sense. There is a reduction in visibility as night falls (and an increase as it ends) such that it becomes more and more difficult to make out men and vehicles on the ground than it would during full daylight hours where you could see things many hundreds of metres away. So visibility of units is restricted during these times. But I find that the sky stays brighter than the ground at these times so it would stand to reason that any dust clouds (which rise up into the sky) will be visible from distances greater than that of the visibility of units on the ground. How does that now grab you as a game feature? Andrew 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Makes sense. Considering a dust cloud is larger and rises higher than the units, I would I assume I could see the cloud before I saw the units. Jason 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 I can live with this engine compromise. Of course we can all imagine circumstances in which it would be absurd (a foggy night on a 6km x 4km map), but those will be very rare. In general, dust is a factor only in dry conditions, and dry conditions occur mostly with the clear weather that makes Andrew Kulin's explanation more than plausible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted April 11, 2004 Author Share Posted April 11, 2004 Originally posted by Martyr: Of course we can all imagine circumstances in which it would be absurd (a foggy night on a 6km x 4km map), but those will be very rare. What about night battles ? I assume the feature is present even then. If not then it all is pretty much OK. In general, dust is a factor only in dry conditions, and dry conditions occur mostly with the clear weather that makes Andrew Kulin's explanation more than plausible. In general I am would agree with him and you. But even given that the fact the clouds reach all the way to the ground which make me think it as more of an excuse than a fully fledged explanation. The dusk and dawn are a bit vague when it comes to defining it in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 There's a note on page 62 of the CMAK manual that answers your question. The upshot is that there's no dust at night. I'm too lazy to copy the relevant passage, however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Lazy sod. It's: Designer’s Note: Dust is always seen anywhere on the map - with or without LOS to the unit(s) causing it - during dawn, dusk, and mid-day light conditions, and is never seen (even if it should be kicked up in theory) during night conditions. This is a necessary engine abstraction to prevent unrealistic spotting distances during the night. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted April 11, 2004 Author Share Posted April 11, 2004 Originally posted by Martyr: There's a note on page 62 of the CMAK manual that answers your question. The upshot is that there's no dust at night. I'm too lazy to copy the relevant passage, however. And I am too lazy to open the PDF file. Bring back the proper manuals, damn it ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I share your views. It is easier, however, to copy and paste from a PDF. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: It is easier, however, to copy and paste from a PDF. Yes. But can you take it with you when you go to the loo ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Depends on what you plan to do when you get there and if your laptop would get in the way. Otherwise, I suppose you could print out the relevent pages, though I would agree that's a nuisance. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Dust is also seen without LOS to the dust itself. That is the thing that irritates me. I just have to force myself to ignore it, despite the strange effect of being able to see a dust cloud progressing along the opposite side of a tall ridge from where my men are all tucked in... GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Dreams Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by GreenAsJade: Dust is also seen without LOS to the dust itself. That is the thing that irritates me. I just have to force myself to ignore it, despite the strange effect of being able to see a dust cloud progressing along the opposite side of a tall ridge from where my men are all tucked in... GaJ. I always just assumed the dust was a fairly tallish plume, so my guys would have no trouble seeing it rise above the ridgeline. Like, if the plume is 100 meters high, the ridgeline isn;t going to totally block LOS to the cloud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Cthulhu Dreams: I always just assumed the dust was a fairly tallish plume, so my guys would have no trouble seeing it rise above the ridgeline. Like, if the plume is 100 meters high, the ridgeline isn;t going to totally block LOS to the cloud. True. But the way it s modelled now the plume is at 100m instantly, as it were. And you can always pinpoint the exact location of the vehicle making it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 It is not uncommon to have troops on the south side of a ridge (reverse slope defense) seeing the progress of (the dust of) AFVs travel along the north side of another ridge 1km to the north. The troops in question can't even see the second ridge, let alone (dust from) the AFVs behind it. It means that those defending troops have time to adjust to the direction from which the impending threat is coming... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hpt. Lisse Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Play the senario "Debut of the Honeys" from the Senario Depot. Even with fog limiting LOS to 200m, those dust clouds can be seen a kilometer away... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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