Leopard_2 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Originally posted by the_enigma: everyone keeps saying that the uk left all there AT weapons in france, am sure we kept producing them didnt we? IIRC, the UK army was crippled for lack of competitive AT assets well into the North Africa campaign (like, having lots of 2pdr equivalents of the "Heeresanklopfgerät" but little to really punch holes). Do I remember correctly? [/QB]Also there was alot of flak and arty available could have been used in an AT role couldnt have they? [/QB]Yes, you could, but ask the crew of German 8.8 flaks used in AT role: when shooting at a plane it's quite OK to sit on a gun with such a high profile and without crew protection to speak of, but when required to use the same gun against tanks... I really don't have hard numbers. What was the quality of UK AT assets at that time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 A What If at AHF, Germany had Mitsubishi Zeros in 1940? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty's Double Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 I stand to be corrected, but I believe the bulk of the 2 pounders were left in France. So, as I said, had the Wermacht rolled into Kent in June, they wouldn't have faced much in the way of AT opposition. By September, I'm guessing quite a few of the little blighters would have been available. If you doubt their effectiveness against 1940 German tanks I suggest you set up a scenario in CMAK. Remember, the Matildas that caused a stink at Arras were armed with 2pdrs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopard_2 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Regarding the Zeros, check out this thread in the General Discussion forum. The trend seemed to be that the Zero would've been toasted in the European theater. (Although the thread quickly switched to the "was Sealion doable" road, somewhat of a twin of this one really. ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Originally posted by Leopard_2: * what about paras taking an airfield, and Bf109 flown over to protect the landing / beachhead from Britain soil? Removes several of the shortcomings they had during BoB (range, bailing pilots being lost).As an interesting comparison/contrast, how long did it take the Allies to base air units in France after the D-Day landings? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopard_2 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 One day. From http://www.raf.mod.uk/dday/timeline_june.html : 7 June The first Allied airstrip in Normandy (B-1) completed at Asnelle, northeast of Bayeux. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denwad Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I believe Sealion would have been a very good way to destroy the Royal Navy, if the Fritz X and the Henschel anti-shipping missile ( which sunk Roma ) were ready in 1940 A huge aerial fleet of He-111 or FW-200 which launch 200+ missles and bombs.... no way AA is going to get them all. {EDIT} I did it in Hearts of Iron before I scraped together a huge fleet of all my ships and destroyers with my transport boats so I could send 6 panzer divisions across the channel into Plymouth I had recently destroyed the RAF, and had built 7 squadrons of naval bombers, the royal navy never had a chance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestor Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Aside from amusing myself with the thought of staging a landing in various Cornish locations (Fowey, in particular, would be fun to watch), I'm left wondering about The Scilly Isles in this equation. 25 miles from Penzance, presumably poorly defended in the summer of 1940 - wouldn't they have made an ideal staging post for this proposed invasion of Cornwall? Take them, base your aircraft there and you're in business. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestor Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Originally posted by Denwad: ......I did it in Hearts of Iron before....... When I was learning the mechanics of this game, trying to establish tin-pot dictatorship hegemony in Central America as Costa Rica, I got invaded by an Australian armoured division in 1937! I would suggest that its value as a modelling tool is questionable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty's Double Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Not being familiar with Hearts of Iron, I couldn't comment, but I can't image it would have been quite that easy. I suspect that the RN would have been rather cautious about commiting its capital ships, even given a landing on British soil. Having read what a handful of destroyers and light cruisers did to the Crete invasion fleet, I'm not sure they would have needed to either. Funny Nestor, Fowey was in my mind too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Just for the sake of keeping this going, and these are based on a road atlass as i've never been to cornwall, Beaches Penzance east to Marazion 2 Miles. Cudden point east to Trewavas head 11/2miles. Porthleven east to Chyanvounder 31/2miles. There are also small under 1 mile beaches at Kuggar, Whitesands Bay,Gerrans Bay,Chaple point,Veryan bay,Megaviisey bay, and Carlyon bay. St Ives has an exellent beach but it's on the north coast. At Penzance it is less than 4 miles North of the beach to St Ives cutting off the toe., From St Austal to Wadebridge is about 12 miles, cutting off the cutting off a 500mile sq peninsula That would seem the logical bit to try to lop off and defend, using bodmin moor as a barrier. One possibility is that they may have hoped that churchills on the beaches speech was bull****, and that the British would fold like the Norwegians, Dutch and Belgians. Finally as these events would predate Pearl Harbour by a year, I think the Royal Navy might have either not been prepared to risk it's Battleships that far south or if it did have lost a lot of them. Even with air cover 1940 British battleships would have been easy meet for a concerted Luftwaffa assault, indeed it might even be worth the risk just to draw them south. What about a landing further east say in Devon east of Exeter and then driving north in to Somerset to cut off the whole South West. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisbech_lad Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Apart from Plymouth, they are pretty much fishing ports. Logistical nightmare keeping any troops supplied through those. RAF would have no qualms about night bombing the ports I think the RN would have come out to play. It would only take a couple of naval bombardments of the captured ports/ beach supply dumps to really put a hurt on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty's Double Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Does anyone know what ships were based in Plymouth in summer 1940? I'm pretty sure there were no capital ships. I would have thought that the available destroyers and light cruisers would have made the landing tough, though not impossible. My first instinct was that the navy would have been nervous about committing its battleships and battlecruisers, but the evidence of Norway runs counter to that doesn't it? I mean steaming the Warspite into a fjord to hunt destroyers isn't exactly cautious is it? Even if they had restricted themselves to night shelling of the German bridgeheads, they would have made things sticky for the invaders. Oops, here we go. Best do some work now, I'll check it later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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