FHFK

[Knaust]

Apparently it seems that in CMBB there is no more the CMBO FirstHitFirstKill situation. In CMBB far more penetrations are needed to knock out a tank. Different game engine?...or other?

[Nidan1]

The modelling for armor penetration, gun type, facing,slope, distance etc. has been more realistically reproduced in CMBB.

[Shifty 101]

The fact that there are NO 1 hit kills is not true. It's been discussed that the door knockers and cannons w/o HE charges take many more hits to KO because they must directly hit a tank crew memeber or some vital equipment. Late war guns are much much more efective.

[MikeyD]

You can still get first round kills, but it's much less common. A big diameter AP shell with an explosive fill (yes, CMBB models this) is much more likely to get a first round kill.

That's what I notice fighting Pz38Ts vs BTs. The German 37mm solid shot will score multiple hits to little effect. But the Russian 45mm with its explosive fill shell only needs one or two penetrations.

[Rock Ape]

If you want to see ineffectual fire, try taking on a T34 with a Pz II ....not recommended

Per Ardua

[Goose]

If you want to see effective fire, try taking on a light armored car with a sturmtiger ....DEFINITLY recommended

[Sardaukar]

Tiger does quite well against BA-64 or scout Car

Many times there is that nice explosion. IIRC, many first hits with larger calibre weapons (75+ mm) are actually kills, but your gunners/commanders are not always sure. Lot more realistic that way. There is still lot of burning tanks for my taste .

Cheers,

M.S.

[Hans]

Want a first round explosive kill? Use the 128mm Kanone 81/2 on ANY Soviet vehicle, enjoy

[Redwolf]

Make that probablity of knockout on "first penetration", not on "first hit".

The nature of the round plays a great role now. The Germann 128mm gun may be overkill against T-34, but in a recent game it shot up 5 T-34 with no more than one shot needed and not a single crewmember getting out of the tanks.

The HE-charge AP round should be much more effective as well - if they penetrate.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Sardaukar:

IIRC, many first hits with larger calibre weapons (75+ mm) are actually kills, but your gunners/commanders are not always sure.

This point needs to be emphasized. After a killing hit is scored, the firing gun will continue to fire until either the target brews or the crew is seen to abandon. This is more realistic and in line with what happened historically. This is more likely to happen when the firing gun is less than 75mm.

Michael

[ January 16, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[CombinedArms]

There's also the factor of EFOW and the "death clock." There might be a kill on a first penetration, but your tank or gun doesn't know that. All you get is a 'front upper hull penetration' message, for example, without an indication of a kill (even though the tank might actually be already dead, and the crew in the process of bailing.) So you pump a few more rounds into the dead tank. This is different from CMBO, where one was told instantly and with certainty that the enemy tank was dead.

So we have two factors at work here:

1) a lot more non-fatal penetrations (esp. early war, when the rounds can be pretty small)

2) fatal penetrations that are not reported as fatal.

This combination creates an impression that the penetrations that do occur are even less fatal than they actually are.