Tripps Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 This may seem a bit of a ramble, and your probably right, but I want some other input on this, because i'm going out of mind.... To put it simply, i've found German Optics at long range shocking, whereas Russian's seem to hit first shot at ranges greater than 1 k... I thought maybe i'm encountering some bad luck, but after talking to a few other PBEM opponants, they seem to have found the same thing, and wondered if this was a general concensus. Case in point for an example. Panther having a narrow field of view, about a 2 meter gap between some woods with LOS to some other woods about 1.5 k away. Infantry further up have LOS to suspected enemy held woods. Turns out there are Russians there, both infantry and a JS2. JS2 spots the Panther and shoots. Dead Panther. I dont even see the enemy units, a couple turns later I get the Tank? symbol. Great. Again and again, similar occurances, buttoned T34's in 41 with regular crew spotting within literally 1 second of my PIV coming into a hull down position 1 k away, and shooting, hitting first shot.... i'm becomming a little insane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 me too :eek: ....I think I have bad luck with Germans...or something is wrong ....you have my sympathy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Hi... But you know - the Red Army won the war.. S! leon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Any idea if the Soviet armour is present as platoons or are they singly purchased vehicles ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Tripps, could it be that the weather conditions weigh heavily against your Axis optics? Warm climate with poor light? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Funny, I have the opposite problem. I usually play Russia and my IS-2s couldn't hit the broad side of a a barn! ...and fighting against a Panther is almost always certain death. I sometimes find the rare (VERY rare) long range first round kill is more than counterbalanced by the nearly complete inability to hit a target most other times. Maybe we're both just unlucky. Perhaps that particular setup (Ruskie tank in ambush) is given a higher hit probability than regular toe-to-toe fighting. [ April 04, 2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Originally posted by MikeyD: Funny, I have the opposite problem. I usually play Russia and my IS-2s couldn't hit the broad side of a a barn! ...and fighting against a Panther is almost always certain death.I've learned the hard way that placing your IS-2 against even late PzIV models (G, H for instance) can be too risky. The shoddy turret front armor and painfully slow ROF can become fatal flaws. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassie Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 I've had the opposite instances also. Whenever I play the Russian side, my tanks can't hit a thing - sometimes not hitting a target until their 5th or 6th shot (if they last that long). In my experience, the germans don't miss that much, unless it's long range and windy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 IMHO the game models German optics as more accurate. They say this right in the manual. it has been my experience that optics make a difference and they are noticably more accurate for the Germans. Play more and you will see (I think) -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtabell Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 It's kinda funny, I almost said to myself, "yes, I too have seen that very thing,,,,!) Then, as in every instance before, I have taken into account all things on the battlefield and in the game and realize...da boyz dat made dis game got their poop in a group. Account for the book. (temp. vs. crew experience) Account for the fact that even if your tank is stopped, and has orders to move, will make difference. Rotation is an unknown quantity. (I watch the turrets turn, stop, fire, turn some more. I would assume this kills accuracy. Bracketing # of shots. A unit only "remembers" a targeted unit for a short time, so if an enemy is out of view for 15 or more seconds, it may take time to re-bracket. Shell type and velocity? (I assume if you have a lower velocity shell, that it becomes an issue). Playing WWIIOnline, some carriages seem more stable than others during and after fire. (I am not sure how it is modeled). (To all, please correct any of my false assumptions, as I am a grog wannabe/willneverbe at this point). SgtAbell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: IMHO the game models German optics as more accurate. They say this right in the manual. it has been my experience that optics make a difference and they are noticably more accurate for the Germans. Play more and you will see (I think) From my observation the better optics give a good spotting and identification bonus, but only a minimal accuracy improvement, if any. Compare the hit probablities of two guns with similar projectile speed with different optics. There's only a few percent for the better optics. [ April 05, 2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripps Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 Originally posted by Tero: Any idea if the Soviet armour is present as platoons or are they singly purchased vehicles ? Some have been scenarios with pre-selected forces (as was the first example) but I would say both. I've found the command delays for the Russians are in effect, in regards to following orders, so the Russian tank could be sitting there for a whole turn waiting to fulfil it's orders, but in the meantime, its no micky when it spots an enemy AFV! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripps Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: Tripps, could it be that the weather conditions weigh heavily against your Axis optics? Warm climate with poor light? Clear steppes and warm/hot IIRC edit - cool, just checked Originally posted by sgtabell: It's kinda funny, I almost said to myself, "yes, I too have seen that very thing,,,,!) Then, as in every instance before, I have taken into account all things on the battlefield and in the game and realize...da boyz dat made dis game got their poop in a group. Account for the book. (temp. vs. crew experience) Account for the fact that even if your tank is stopped, and has orders to move, will make difference.Its April 44, all Regular crews, hunt command, with armor arc straight in front. I believe the Russian tank was stationary, with much wider armor arc, covering whole front. Originally posted by sgtabell: Rotation is an unknown quantity. (I watch the turrets turn, stop, fire, turn some more. I would assume this kills accuracy. Bracketing # of shots. A unit only "remembers" a targeted unit for a short time, so if an enemy is out of view for 15 or more seconds, it may take time to re-bracket. Shell type and velocity? (I assume if you have a lower velocity shell, that it becomes an issue). Playing WWIIOnline, some carriages seem more stable than others during and after fire. (I am not sure how it is modeled). (To all, please correct any of my false assumptions, as I am a grog wannabe/willneverbe at this point). SgtAbell Like I said, first shot kills, no rotation of my turret, I dont even see them! In others, if it goes past the first couple of shots, it can go either way, I wish I could post a 3 second movie clip [ April 04, 2003, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Tripps ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: Tripps, could it be that the weather conditions weigh heavily against your Axis optics? Warm climate with poor light? Poor light/weather would actualy give German optics an advantage, this is one area they held an advantage over Allied optics, till wars end. German optical coatings enhanced light transmission, contrast, and resolution. This allowed them a much better sight picture, at longer distances in inclimate weather conditions Ie, rain, overcast, snow etc. Regards, John Waters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Spike Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Observation--In 65 pbem games over the last 9 weeks,mostly Aug 42,in which I've played roughly half as German and half as Russian,(usually PzIVG early-longs v T-34/76 mod 43 earlies) the Russian long-range gunnery is always slightly inferior. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Originally posted by Tripps: Some have been scenarios with pre-selected forces (as was the first example) but I would say both. I've found the command delays for the Russians are in effect, in regards to following orders, so the Russian tank could be sitting there for a whole turn waiting to fulfil it's orders, but in the meantime, its no micky when it spots an enemy AFV! I think there seems to be a correlation between a vehicle belonging to a platoon and the accuracy of the first shot. Especially if there are more than one tank from the platoon in LOS of the target. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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