Ligur Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: Reminds me of modern management. The own goals are more important than the goals of the whole. You are a part of that group that has the best career opportunities - not the group you identify with. Works best when there is no penalty for the individual if the firm fails and if failure is long-term, but success immediately. Of course, immediate success gets you into a position where the casualties left are no longer your problem. Gruß Joachim Oh crap, that sounds like we're talking about the human race and how a large part of them, err, us operate. Its almost like there is a part of the population constantly at work who are complete assholes to everyone else, driving only their own interests! Oh snap, I just remembered this is how it works. Thnx bye, I'm off to launch myself to space. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Ligur: Thnx bye, I'm off to launch myself to space. Hey ,wait !! Let me enter formation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 LOL! Some funny replies here. On defense I try to avoud having that unsupported platoon way out in front/side to act as a speedbump to the onslaught of the assaulter. But sometimes the terrain or setup makes that a must. Against careful attackers it will slow them down; againts carless attackers it will kill some bad guys. Best place those guys where they are not expected but they will die. And anyone who tries to help them will die also. It is a tough mission to draw but hey lose a platoon is better than losing a battalion as someone earlier said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Jack, (reference to the first post), when i started playing CM, i was very reluctant to lose troops, or to abandon them. Later, when i started playing PBEM daily (sometimes, 3-5 turns a day), it dawned upon me that winning the overall misson was more important, no matter how painful it was to watch a whole squad or platoon wiped out. by now, i am quite jaded in sacrificing a half-squad or half-track out for probing exercise even though i mite not see them back alive, posthumously, they will receive a medal. to quote a dictator: to lose one life is a tragedy, to lose a million lives is a statistic. guess war is hell [ June 25, 2003, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: laxx ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripps Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by SFJaykey: : I think my batting average against human opponents is still somewhere over .500. Totally off topic, but just how does that baseball term work? I'm guessing you mean just over half, but what is the formula? Why don't they use 55.34% or whatever? cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 ..."give em the cold monitor" ROFLMAO @ Bruno Weiss..geez man got coffee all over the keyboard reading that..still wiping tears from my eyes. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Two goals for me: 1. Mission Accomplishment 2. Troop Welfare Succeed in the mission whenever and whatever way I can but I refuse to waste the lives of my men needlessly. Taking care of your troops is important. Sure, you can get 1/2 of your command killed or injured today in seizing that position but what about tomorrow? Are you even getting replacements, esp. late war Germany? I often take great pains in saving/rescuing a unit from destruction. I can sacrifice a unit if the situation warrants it but I dislike doing it. I have a disgust in leaving units behind to get annihalated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Ah... Play Biltongs campaign rules and you'll see things differently my jaded commander amigos... The overall mission is more important sometimes.. and sometimes not. Play as if this is your command and reinforcements are iffy, and I've noticed I usually do better actually, though sometimes you just have to take a defeat to preserve the integrity of your formation. Its more realistic too, if you were somewhere in Stalingrad, would you lose your last 50 troops in a desperate last ditch assault to storm the factory? What are you going to do when the night falls and you and your 18 man group are left to hold the factory? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Murray Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I confess that when I play a scenario like " Stalingrad The Movie " I actually enjoy seeing enemy troops caught out in the open & trapped there by HMG/LMG units. That's when I target them with AT/Artillery pieces ( if available ) & watch the little b*st*rds run aound like chickens with their heads cut off! I know it's sadistic but this is war ( and it ain't pretty ). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 I'm glad to see that this thread got some feedback. Here is another example of what I'm talking about. I often use tank hunter teams as scouts when I'm playing a scenario in which I'm defending. Often times the tank hunter team does find out where the enemy armored column is coming from. The conscience comes in to the equation when the tank hunter team finds itself surrounded in a wooded area by 3 or more enemy tanks. The team is in hiding so they are no found out and probably won't be for the remainder of the scenario. They do have an excellent chance of taking one of the enemy tanks out. If they do, the other tanks will blow them to bits. Do I take out the one enemy tank and lose the team or not? Should I look at this from the two man teams point of view or from a cold hearted General's point of view? What do you do? Just curious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Reminds me of a recent statement by an unnamed administration official (who's name starts with the letter R) callously contrasting the recent spate of U.S. serviceman killings in Iraq with the average murder rate in Washington D.C. That statement must've reassured the troops on the ground that the guys at the top really cared about them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: Should I look at this from the two man teams point of view or from a cold hearted General's point of view? What do you do? Just curious. I can not switch off my conscience during a game vs. the AI (it is hindering me now and then, but I think it is more fun to play that way). In this tank hunter situation I would not take on the tanks if there is no chance of survival for the team. But I would definitely go for an attack as soon as there is a chance for survival - e.g. only 1 tank of the 3 is left close by and so few infantry that there is a escape chance for the tank hunter team. Regards Uwe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJaykey Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Tripps: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SFJaykey: : I think my batting average against human opponents is still somewhere over .500. Totally off topic, but just how does that baseball term work? I'm guessing you mean just over half, but what is the formula? Why don't they use 55.34% or whatever? cheers </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by MikeyD: Just last night I tried my first large all-infantry battle in a LOOOONG time. Everything went very well until someone started dropping mortars on an infantry platoon I had off guarding the left flank. Those poor guys were pinned in the open under mortar attack for SIX TURNS! There was nothing I could do to help. I even hunted down what I thought was the spotter and killed him, but the shells just kept falling. The main body of men was fighting and dying, but it was those poor slobs trapped and helpless under the merciless mortar attack that I felt most sorry for (snif). Fire smoke into the likely LOS path of the enemy spotter. His accuracy will drop, if you are lucky so much that his shells hit his own men. It worked better in CMBO where it was more obvious where the spotter was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I noticed I can improve my results by actually caring When I want to take the time I visit the unit and go down to view level 1 or 2 and follow the path I ordered them to take, mentally taking the kind of order into account (fast, to-contact, advance etc.) and imagine a talk with these men as in "Uh, you really want us to ...?". I don't want to spend whole evenings on single PBEM moves, so I restrict doing this to some situations. The primary example would be a defense where I have very few units and in CM scenarios typically very few infantry. On top of that I usually don't have enough HQs. So, if I order one of my few squads, which is likely out of command, to do some kind of agressive move (spoiling attack, scout elimination, spotter assasination, counterattack) I play the orders I give by walking in view 1 mode. In CMBB this is much more important than in CMBO since you primary problem is not a major firefight, but instead it is the odd MG that might hang out somewhere. In special, scout cars which are mostly harmless to squads in CMBO can pin your valuable CMBB squad for good. On the other hand, just group-selecting a battalion and giving a group human wave order does the job very well sometimes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by pavlov: playing vs AI I find myself using the Withdraw command occasionally and making other command decisions based on what I think a real-world commander or unit might do to save themselves or help their buddies. I think it makes the game more interesting. On the other hand when I play against a breathing opponent it is always kill or be killed! [/QB]I agree with you pavlov, I do the same. I guess it's that competitive instinct in us when it comes to human to human. I do however always try to do what would be done in real life as I feel that I am cheating when I pull something that I know or have doubt about a real commander doing. It does help though when you know your opponent feels the same way and doesn't try some bull crap stuff either. Then you can act more proper yourself. I would feel terrible if one of my opponents questioned something I did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 Just thought I'd post my experience with the example I gave above, hiding recon tank hunter team. I have been in this situation more than once, mostly because this tactic works. I have played it both ways, with a conscience and like a mindless automaton with no fear of death. In the instances in which I have sacrificed the TH team, 90+% of the time an enemy tank was destroyed and so was the team immediately after they did their dirty work. It seems that the reality is their sacrifice allows many of their comrades to survive. One less 76mm or 85mm shelling friendly positions/armor does make a difference and after all, there were only two soldiers in that tank hunting team. It reminds me of a Splash screen mod someone had posted which had a picture of Hitler and Stalin with quotes. Stalin's quote was, "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of one million men is a statistic". In what category does the death of a two man tank hunting team fall? I'm betting Stalin might have deemed this a tragic statistic??? Or maybe a statistical tragedy??? Oh, I don't know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conhugeco Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by SFJaykey: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tripps: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SFJaykey: : I think my batting average against human opponents is still somewhere over .500. Totally off topic, but just how does that baseball term work? I'm guessing you mean just over half, but what is the formula? Why don't they use 55.34% or whatever? cheers </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJaykey Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Conhugeco: Your batter is only batting .250 and I suggest that you renegotiate his salary! LOL! OK, my deficiency in arithmetic has been revealed! To go along with the failings in English grammar, historical knowledge, and common sense that I've demonstrated earlier. Original post has been edited, thanx. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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