MAsta_KFC Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Ok, I've seen one or two small discussions about merging CMBO units into the CMBB engine, but nothing I would call substantial. What I am attempting to do is create a thread dedicated to seriously analysing a mod which will allow such a conversion. I shall attempt to break it down into different sections along the way. Please feel free to add constructive comments and opinions.Please don't flame, I know my knowledge in some areas is limited. =) From what I see, CMBO and CMBB shares quite a similar basic engine, ie AI wise, TACAI behaviour, projectile and armour calculations, terrain elevation/building types, artillery etc. As I have heard some people say, CMBO was revolutionary, CMBB is evolutionary. From this basic shared qualites, this should make the job easier. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that each basic unit shares a set of statistics quite common in both games. Infantry squads(apart from some tweaks in the TACAI in CMBB which makes it more realistic)have squad name, number of troops per squad, weapon loadouts, ammunition levels. HQs and infantry support (ie panzershrack, MG) are very similar in both CMBO and CMBO. So just on the point of infantry, would it be plausible to port the basic allied squads from CMBO to CMBB? It would seem relatively easy to do. On the Allied selection in QB, one could create a 'Western Allies' subgroup then further subgroups to choose British, American etc. And then the list could be populated with infantry squads and loadouts from CMBO. Armour and guns have had a substantial and better realism implemented in CMBB, which I am thankful for. However, Like i mentioned, armour again shares the basic stat qualities, it is the engine that is upgraded. The penetration/armour values, calibre, speed, angles, turret turn rates are still present. The additions which might cause a problem which i can see is the introduction of ammunition types and the implentation of radio and optics. Again, would it not be relatively (and i do mean relatively) easy to port these stats over to the newer CMBB engine? And again create subgroups and populate the list with the relevant units and costs? Which leads me to the final problem of modeling. Obviously, IF the new units were portable then you can't have a russian soldier and just call him and american. Nor can one have a Valentine and call it a Sherman. I must admit I am totally ignorant in this area, so i'll have to ask a wiser mind than me the simple question, 'Is it possible?'. Could the models and textures (i'm sure the textures are easy, since they are just BMPs) be extracted in some way from CMBO and implemented into the CMBB engine? Can someone please comment on this? I realise that the models in CMBO are less detailed, however I'm sure many people would ignore the difference. So in conclusion, I am asking the community and BTS, is it possible? What are the difficulties that need to be overcome to realise this mod? I know that it doesn't sound as easy as it first appears to be. I also know that BTS already has another project, but if they do, why not release simple tools to allow the community to attempt it? Many games have done that (ie Operation Flashpoint, Half Life) and with the help of the fine CM community I'm sure that we would be able to extend and improve the current CM series 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Originally posted by MAsta_KFC: ...Could the models and textures (i'm sure the textures are easy, since they are just BMPs) be extracted in some way from CMBO and implemented into the CMBB engine? Simply put: no. The models are hard-coded into the engine and without BFC releasing the source code it's not possible to change, alter or replace them. BFC have stated several times their oppinion about releasing the source code. Expressions like "...never...from my cold dead hands...when hell freezes over..." were used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 CM wasn't geared to be modd-able in the manner that you desire. From what I've heard in the past, it was a pain to get units into the either CMBO or CMBB - and this was for the developers who had the proper tools ! It's possible someone could hack the CM executable and add all of this data by hand, but the next engine would already have been out for a couple of years by the time that project would finish. So I can't really imagine anyone with the skills to do this would bother doing so. Suffice it to say that if your mod requires more than bitmaps and sounds, it's not going to be possible. Developing tools for a modding community sounds nice, but then you have to realize that the engine and the data have to be open enough for such things to be changed. The game has to be programmed from the start with this in mind, CM wasn't. For performance and game integrity reasons this wasn't done (not to mention the huge amount of extra coding time it requires to 'open up' your game in such a way). Part of CM's value is the amount of research done on historical data (which most other games don't have to contend with). Opening up the engine would allow such values to be changed (resulting in all sorts of accusations of 'cheating', etc. between players who may have modded their game) or the data to be easily ported out of the game for someone else's purposes. [ January 31, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Yeah, and we don't want no liars and cheaters. That's for election day! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Schrullenhaft is - as usual, and not surprisingly - right on the money. Additional to that, we were facing the decision if we want to spend time and energy on doing this "mod", or if we want to focus immediately on the new engine. Doing the latter means that the new engine will be available many months earlier than if we had to divert energy on merging CMBO and CMBB first. We decided to go this route, and I think everybody wins in this situation. Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 What, you can't go down to the 23rd floor of your giant BFC corporate building and assign an intern to the task? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-E Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Originally posted by MikeyD: What, you can't go down to the 23rd floor of your giant BFC corporate building and assign an intern to the task? Why do they have Matt then? *grin* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Correction I believe MadMatt is on orders as the official scapegoat encase anything goes wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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