lcm1947 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I just recently purchased this fine game after playing CMBO for over 3 years and am wondering which side if either is more powerful then the other. Now I am really just wanting to compare the Russina's vs the German's so if you would limit your replys to these two nations I'd appreciate it. OK, if you think another Nation then the two I'm interested in is more powerful then go ahead and name them - if you must. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 The archives of this forum will do just fine It's pretty clear there are exactly the same number of people for each side, and most in the middle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 lcm1947, your question is indeed a loaded one. In this forum, there are folks who love the Germans side because of the different unit setups which you can mix and match. Then there are the russkivites who love the different strengths in fighting. So, short answer: about 50:50, long answer: read the archives for the long firesite chats between German and Russian differences. Myself, I like the Germans AFVs and Units because I am familiar with them, but their ammo count is too little. their tanks moves slower but shoot more accurately. I have somewhat stopped playing the Germans a few months ago and find playing the Russkies different and quite refreshing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Well, to compare the two main sides (Germany vs Russia) in terms of "power" I'd say you would have to split it like this: German: Better Tanks Russia: Better Infantry As always, the Germans have the long line of Uber-Kitties like the Tiger, Panther, KT, ect. Plus the abundance of 88mm Flak guns other very effective AT weapons like AT guns and the Panzerfaust, and Magnetic mines. Russia however, excels in the infantry department, usually is has a manpower advange no matter the year. Squads and Platoons usually outnumber the Germans in terms of orgonization. Firepower is better than that of German squads too. And even in June of 41' Russia gets the SMG squad. Tanks usually have large HE and canister loads, and infantry helping Assault Guns like the SU-76 are very cheap in the later war year. Edit #1 - If I had to play only one side, I'd go with the Russians. By the end of the war they were catching up (much more than the Americans and Brits in my opinion) to the German tanks. SU-85M and the SU-100 level the playing field a bit. Edit #2 - Or just play Uber-Finn. They kill anything. Get some lend lease German STUGs and some Sumoi Packing Sissi sqauds and you can kick anybodies ass. [ June 26, 2003, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parachute Hamster Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Well, there are germans with their long range optics and "big cats". Then there are russians with their infantry masses and huge assault guns. I can't name the best, because i like them both. And then of course, there are those über finns I just love. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaTyR Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Just wanted to clear a few things for those new to the uber-finns: Lend lease Stugs were used as thrown AT weapons, just like pinecones. The great size of a Stug abled the finns to destroy even the heaviest of russian tanks with ease, compared to the quite low (in finnish standards) armor penetration of the pinecone. A normal finnish panzerjäger platoon carried a couple of Stugs, and a pocketfull of pinecones and a combat toothpick, with a spare tip, per man. Sumoi (as noted by Nippy), are female sumo wrestlers. Veteran Sissi squads could carry 3 Sumoi´s. Lighter than the thrown Stug but heavier than pinecones, and more lethal against soviet infantry, they were an ideal weapon for behind the lines combat. A pack of Sumoi's could be released upon a soviet column and only muffled screams could be heard as the troops disappeared in a wobble of flesh. During R&R the finns used Sumoi as "selänpesijät" when in sauna. [ June 26, 2003, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: SaTyR ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 only muffled screams could be heard as the troops disappeared in a wobble of flesh.good god, there's an image that will stay with me. i prefer to play the Soviets. i find attacking difficult as the Axis. you dare not risk an uber tank & everything else sucks. Kitties are superb in overwatch but they're not so good when they need to expose their flanks. also, Russian infantry is great at short range & the LMG is very portable & good enough for close support. and at 9 points you can buy enough to give you an advantage. also also, the 76.2mm AT gun makes the early war very dangerous for Axis tanks. 3rd also, you get ~60 rounds of 51mm mortar ammo. TBH though, i've not played the Axis much. i'm a new player & was just drawn to the Soviets. don't know why. but they've served me well so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligur Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I am always compelled to play the Soviets by the ghost of Stalin. Also it feels morally right to sacrifice my men in massed infantry assaults when playing Soviets, and I always have the whining option since I have to play vs the superior German überarmor. The most disappointing unit in all my wargaming history this far has been the all-famous T34 of CM:BB and all its great re-incarnations. I can't understand how a tank can be so utterly useless piece of scrap metal yet so pricey. It just does not compute to me. How can they be so slow to shoot? Why are they unable to hit the wide side of the barn? Why do they refuse to react on threats? Why do they only reverse upon sighting a German PzII instead of shooting back? Before someone takes me 100% serisouly, pounces on me and writes a three page essay on why I am totally wrong take my lament with a grain of salt, I admit my comments might be somewhat extreme and during years the situation does vary BUT FUNDAMENTALLY MY WORDS HAVE THE RING OF TRUTH IN THEM. ADMIT IT. FACE THE FACT THAT THE T34 IS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TIN COFFIN OF DEATH MADE OF RECYCLED SCRAP METAL AND BAD INTENTIONS FOR THE CREW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Ligur: ...ADMIT IT. FACE THE FACT THAT THE T34 IS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TIN COFFIN OF DEATH MADE OF RECYCLED SCRAP METAL AND BAD INTENTIONS FOR THE CREW. Can I borrow this as a new sig line? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Dave H: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ligur: ...ADMIT IT. FACE THE FACT THAT THE T34 IS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TIN COFFIN OF DEATH MADE OF RECYCLED SCRAP METAL AND BAD INTENTIONS FOR THE CREW. Can I borrow this as a new sig line? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 My opinion is the German infantry's edge (at least til mid-war) almost entirely rests on the mg34 light mg embedded in the squads. If it weren't for that they'd just be nine guys with bolt-action rifles against twelve Russians with murderous smgs. That lmg's firepower has saved my bacon more than once. As for best tanks, last night I had my Stug knocked out by a first round kill from a T-34-85 at 1400m... in the rain! Ouch! Even a King Tiger wouldn't be expected to accomplish that feat! The T-34-85 is modeled as a vast improvement over the other 2-man turret T34-76s. Whether or not it was really that good in real life could be the topic of debate all its own. [ June 26, 2003, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 FACE THE FACT THAT THE T34 IS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TIN COFFIN OF DEATH MADE OF RECYCLED SCRAP METAL AND BAD INTENTIONS FOR THE CREW. Nyet, comrade. T-34s can be very successful, they just have to be used correctly. I've seen Panthers ripped to shreds by T-34/85s, and I've seen T-34/76s tear into earlier German tanks as well (no, I wasn't on the receiving end both times ) . It's all in how ya use 'em. Please report to Re-education camp #23 for further training on this matter. Thank you for your cooperation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligur Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Dave H: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ligur: ...ADMIT IT. FACE THE FACT THAT THE T34 IS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE TIN COFFIN OF DEATH MADE OF RECYCLED SCRAP METAL AND BAD INTENTIONS FOR THE CREW. Can I borrow this as a new sig line? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 A few points: Again, the better optics do not improve accuracy that much. But they improve spotting a lot. In the latest patch the 85mm APBC ammo that the Russians get in April 1944 is substancially weaker than in older revisions of the game. I just got a Panther waxed by 85mm front turret penetration anyway, but the chance is notiably smaller now. In special, hulldown Hetzers are now a pretty big problem for 85mm Russian vehicles. The better German MGs are the only area where the Germans really had a weapons quality edge in early WW2. The moment they get fancy other stuff they went under . Use them wisely. I also like the fact that the German HMG teams fit on tanks where the watercooled one don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 has anyone ever swapped sides half way through a PBEM? my opponent seems to have decided he won't win and we're only on turn 10. i was thinking of swapping with him & seeing if i could salvage anything. OTOH, maybe i would just rather CRUUUUSSSSH HIM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Excellent replys from all, well except that one guy who is being silly. Anyway, I appreciate the sincere ones and got some good useful info for my purposes. Anybody else want to contribute? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I like the Italians, they have the most uber tankette of the war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 There is more stuff to exploit. Before 1944 the Russians have slower response and hence are a little cheaper for otherwise the same capablities. The on-board mortar has more ammo for only a slightly higher price. On-board mortars are a very useful form of artillery in CMBB. Some obscure infantry formations where you can get HQs for your mortars cheap and other goodies in overall small and cheap formations. For the Germans the nice stuff comes with the big units. Very cheap AA guns. They only have HE, but if all you want is getting the crew out by knocking that doesn't matter. Stuart. M17. SU-122. But a few things go on my nerves for Russians: - AT infantry gets more effective after they dump all their molotovs and use grenades - no on-board artillery heavier than 76mm, e.g. 122mm guns - no towing of very heavy guns (the idea with the captured gun tractor didnt appeal enough) - flamthrower tanks ineffective because they blow all the ammo too soon The T-34 also seems to have a pretty slow ROF. Need to investigate... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gautrek Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I'm just as crap with both sides. :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I think it's 60% luck and 40% skill in CMBB, no matter what side you play. If you pick your own units, maybe then the side matters, but otherwise, no difference. Each side has its pluses and weaknesses depending on date, terrain and muddiness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Pump Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 But a few things go on my nerves for Russians: - AT infantry gets more effective after they dump all their molotovs and use grenades Since the "tossed" grenade is an abstraction of individuals running up an attaching grenades to weak points. Self preservation would make it logical to first try flinging a molotov at range. But sometimes I wish my squads didn't have any molotovs to waste their time with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Big Poppa Pump: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />But a few things go on my nerves for Russians: - AT infantry gets more effective after they dump all their molotovs and use grenades Since the "tossed" grenade is an abstraction of individuals running up an attaching grenades to weak points. Self preservation would make it logical to first try flinging a molotov at range. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 I love the russkies because they can do human wave 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Excellent replys from all, well except that one guy who is being silly. Anyway, I appreciate the sincere ones and got some good useful info for my purposes. Anybody else want to contribute? Just in case it wasn't clear, I was being both silly and sincere. I really have seen effective T-34s. And no, I haven't seen any pink elephants lately, either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 Sorry demoss but I wasn't directing that silly remark towards you but towards SatyR. He got real silly. I least I thought he was? :confused: Yeah, I just reread it and it's silly. Other Means you mention that the Russian's have good short range abilities but my understanding is that they had bolt action rifles compared to the German squads which to a large degree were equiped with SMG's. So why do you say what you did, may I ask? I'd think the German's would have this short range advantage? So Ligur you are saying that the T-34's are like the Sherman's, crap? If that's the case I think BFC got it wrong as the T-34 was a damn good tank all things considered. My opinion of course but that's the way I understand it. If they are indeed that poor I want to play the German's cause wasn't the T34 the backbone of the Russia armor and so in scenario's that's what the majority of the tanks will be? I'm worn out trying to go up against German armor with Sherman's. I'd like to have the advantage for a change. It would be a nice change of pace. Now MikeyD says it too that the Russian's had more SMG's then the German's. When did that happen? I must be missing something as I sure thought it the other way around. German's started off with them and the Russia's seeing how effective they were started producting and using them. Being no expect I am surely wrong but anyone want to clarify. One other point I'd like to ask about is MG's. I know the German 42 was far superior to what the American's had but how did the Russian's MG's compared with it? Rate of fire wise that is. I know the cartridges were about the same or at least in their rifles they were. Did they use the same cartridge in their MG's as their rifles? Any replys would be appreciated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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