Biltong's Campaign Rules

[benpark]

Biltong-a few maps coming your way next week...I was ambushed by RL.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

I've always thought the 15 CASUALTIES rule was a bit too harsh, and most of all not fun (losing half your men including your CO on a die roll). I saw some numbers on a website, http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/statistics-losses-eastern.htm

Losses on the Eastern front

June 1941 25.000

July 1941 63.099

Aug 1941 46.066

Sep 1941 51.033

Oct 1941 41.099

Nov 1941 36.000

Dec 1941 40.198

Total 1941 302.495

And the Wehrmacht had 7200000 men in 1941. Sure, they weren't all on the eastern front, but say half of them were. That means the casualty rate was 8%. That would include battle casualties and frostbites. I just don't see how they could lose, with some bad dice rolls in the winter, 50% of the men between battles.

Also, as you notice from the numbers, the winter didn't explode the casualties. I really think this rule could use some altering. Not that it matter to me, I don't use it at all , but I really thing it's a bit off.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if those numbers are correct, or even if they only include "battle casualties" and not "weather casualties".

If you look at that link, looks like something really bad happend in jan 43:

Nov 1942 31.198

Dec 1942 78.759

Jan 1943 180.310

Feb 1943 68.330

Hmm SS - Not quite correct. If you look again at the site you quote you'll see that those weren't 'losses', but deaths!

This has been discussed a number of times, but lets have one more go for all the newbies

"By Dec 41 German losses on land reached 830,903 officers, NCO's and men - roughly 25.9 perecent of the forces which had been alloted to Operation Barbarossa" (This from Brig Gen J.L. Collins Chief of Military Hist, US Dept of the Army)

Now take into account that front line troops that BCR represent only make up between 1/7th to 1/10th of the forces deployed - the rest in support roles or on training/being refitted etc etc and you'll see that BCR's figures are very lenient

BTW - Soviet losses in prisoners alone were 2,800,000 from June to Dec!!

Here's some more random thoughts and quotes:

"On Nov 14th Gen Guderian improvised a Brigade of only 50 tanks out of what was left of the 350 tanks from the 3rd & 4th Pz Divisions."

Once the winter struck "the Soviet Army's main advantage lay not in numbers, but in fresh, well-clad troops where the Germans were exhausted, ill-fed, demoralised and freezing."

German clothing were worn from 5 months in the field, lacked a balaclava helmet, earflaps, padded tunic, fur gloves or camouflage overalls. Boots had only room for one pair of socks. The result: Frostbite: In the 112th Div there were +-400 in EACH inf. regiment on Nov 17th!

The lack of anti-freeze meant engines had to be kept running while fuel supplies were having enourmous trouble in getting through. Crampons for tank tracks had not yet reached the front and tracks were too narrow for the snow. Automatic arms jammed. German horses died in droves, because they were not used to digging in snow like their Russian cousins. etc etc.

The percentages I decided on came from various sources... after a while you get the same type of data over and again. I also ran it passed some grogs. I personally think they are lenient and I adjusted them so, to make the game more playable.

Most players think the 'Casualties' represent 'wounded', but this is not the case. Our little Battle Group is a microcosm of what happened all over the Southern Front. In our case Casualties represent:

Sickness

Frostbite

Wounded

Lost;

Troops delayed because of disorganisation; roads impassable with snow or mud; detroyed railway lines/bridges etc etc

Troops without ammo/weapons to fight

Armor & vehicles (esp horse drawn) broken down; stranded in snow or mud; stuck without fuel (food for horses), spare parts or ammo etc etc etc

These and a host of other smaller factors cut into the German forces when the going got tough.

One final quote: "On Nov 12th the temperature was -12 deg C; On Dec 4th it fell to -35deg and a strong north-east wind made it far worse." The term wind-chill wasn't invented yet

If you'll look at the rules, you'll see that the extreme casualties (50%) are restricted to the these 'bad' cold days.

Hint: Build up favor during the good months and use them to stay out of trouble when the winter comes: "Please Sir, My men are stuffed! We need a break!!"

"OK - You've proven yourself over and over - Off you go for a 2 week refit"

Most quotes from: The Hist of World War II, Orbis - London, i966/84/85, Lt-Col. E Bauer

[ May 02, 2003, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[DBaron]

I have a question concerning attached units. First of all, do you have to spend the attachment points right away, or you can bank them for later? Secondly it says you can buy infantry with them, so say I bought an aufkalurung platoon, would that be considered just one attachment or would it be considered three (leader + two squads, disregarding the third squad).

[Biltong]

Originally posted by benpark:

Biltong-a few maps coming your way next week...I was ambushed by RL.

Good - Good. Also having a bit of a problem with RL at the moment - It's 4:30am - Only time I get to answer some posts

[Biltong]

Originally posted by DBaron:

I have a question concerning attached units. First of all, do you have to spend the attachment points right away, or you can bank them for later? Secondly it says you can buy infantry with them, so say I bought an aufkalurung platoon, would that be considered just one attachment or would it be considered three (leader + two squads, disregarding the third squad).

You have to spend them, but you can upgrade later when you get more points and if all 3 positions are filled. 1 Platoon = 1 unit.

Edit:

The rules have been updated to make this clearer. Thanx DB

Biltong

[ May 03, 2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[DBaron]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Snowbart]

I would have to say the capitulation at Stalingrad by overwhelming Soviet forces is the reason for the casualty spike in Jan '43. Where else would those casualties be listed in those numbers? But of course many tragedies occurred during that winter of '42...the destruction of the Italians, Romanians, etc.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Scarhead:

...

a) reduce causalties by half,

some dice roll based on this, or

c) a dice roll before normal replacement that tells you that the wounded men of the last x battles return to their units. Their experience is reduced to either as it was when they left (heavy bookkeeping!), and you calculate the new exp with that, or it is 90% of what the squad has now....

Good ideas! And they are already on the list. In fact, what is happening is that the armor portion of 'c' is already scheduled to be implimented in Jan 43. I'm portioning all new rules into batches to be added every 6 'war' months as Addendums. These addendums can be retrofitted to previous years if the players want to.

I don't want to make 41 into a massive tome that will scare all new players off. Gradually they will discover new rules that they can impliment or ignore as they see fit.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

I would have to say the capitulation at Stalingrad by overwhelming Soviet forces is the reason for the casualty spike in Jan '43. Where else would those casualties be listed in those numbers? But of course many tragedies occurred during that winter of '42...the destruction of the Italians, Romanians, etc.

Yep - The Soviet Winter offensive: Operation Saturn (includig Stalingrad) must be to blame. The Soviets destroyed 40 to 45 German and satelite divisions - a quarter of the forces facing them!!

[OBJ]

Biltong-

Do you have a feel for the winter '41 effects on just Army Group South? I can imagine the Russian winter in the northern latitudes was brutal.

Did you ever get my e-mailed xls file for unit and leader starting potential and tracking experience levels and leadership traits?

What would you say to a favor penalty if the TF casualties significantly exceed core force casualties?

[Biltong]

Gentlemen,

A last word on the Casualties die-roll:

I, myself hate it when things outside my control dictate important factors of a game I play. If the AI cheats or there’s a bug!

The Casualties die-roll might seem to fit in this category, but it’s not a bug or ‘somefink’.

As a German CO on the East Front and esp. in winter, you would have found an enormous amount of factors out of your control.

If BCR was purely about ‘fun’, I would not even have included the Casualties parameter, but BCR is also about giving you a historical ‘ride’.

For the first couple of years the Main features of Operation Barbarossa, was the German Summer offensives followed by the Russian counter offensives. To exclude these or to water them down, would destroy BCR’s credibility IMHO.

The only way one can experience what the Germans went through – esp. in that 1st winter of 42 – is through a campaign like BCR.

The absolute Frustration; Anger; Fear and Horror of having to reach objectives or defend against an ever increasing enemy and you don’t know when you wake up in the morning how many of your men and armor will be available or in fighting condition.

This is what will separate the men from the boys… Those who can handle this, who can make do with nothing and still survive till spring

If this is too much historical accuracy for you - Simply up your Date die-roll by 2 and rush through the winter, but do try and stick to the casualty die-roll. An easy campaign with no challenges will soon become boring and grind to a halt.

Put yourself in the boots of a CO at the mercy of Hitler’s poor judgement. Learn how to handle a series of mishaps that is out of your control… How & when to fight retreating actions and if necessary, how & when to run & hide.. See it as a challenge… You will only have this opportunity with BCR.

[SuperSulo]

Ok, well now you know why I put that disclaimer there. But for us, the casualties roll = deaths, as we never get them back. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

Ok, well now you know why I put that disclaimer there.

Super - You're just a closet atheist! You hate a higher hand interfereing with your well laid plans

[QB

But for us, the casualties roll = deaths, as we never get them back. ...[/QB]

Point taken!

Now how to fix it or somefink?

The red tape involved with keeping track of each unit = how long they must stay away and how much exp they should retain, is a bit much. Unless someone can come up with a simple formula?

Off the top of my head:

What about setting one in place for the CO only. Die-roll determines how long he'll be out of action (he might not return of course).

E.g.: Each Normal Replacements you roll and 1 - 2 CO has returned. 6 CO died from his wounds.

While the CO's away the player can appoint the best junior officer to replace him, with some 15% exp and 2 x leadership quality loss. This Junior CO get's replaced with the 1st normal replacement as per normal.

The players can use the same formula for the rest of the Battle Group Units (excluding Attached Units).

How's that?

[Biltong]

More:

The player will have to decide beforehand wether he's going to wait for the CO/other units to return or not. If not - they were useless in any case - he takes normal replacements. If 'yes' - he can't change his mind - he'll have to march the whole unit off the map and pay the opp force point penalty all the way until the unit returns or until it's death is confirmed and he can replace them as per normal

This should reduce the red-tape, since you'll only wait for a realy good unit.

Any problems with the above?

Anyone wants to try it and report back?

See, SS - You only have to nag me 30 times to get the old brain kick started

[ May 03, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[dwas]

This might be a stupid question, but how do you define the Weeks in your rules? and how does it relate to Month and Days?

To be specific - in June there are 30 days

Should the 29th and 30th of June be week 5 of June or Week 1 of July?

The campaign starts at 22th of June, 1941. That's week 4 day 1, June. Increment 7 days and you end up with Week 1, day 1, July - but the actual date is 29th of June.

????

[SuperSulo]

Biltong, that sounds ok, but as you say, more red tape... Maybe the same can be achieved with just lowering the casualty rate? I'm still wondering if the loss of half the company to "general winter" was the "norm". Anyway, your idea seems at least better than it is now.

Come to think of it, we actually get the REAL casualty rate (deaths) in the AAR. Yes, it's only a total kills, and not per unit, but maybe it can be used to something anyway. And of course not all of the "wounded" should come back either, loss of limbs and such makes them out-of-action also, so a percentage of the wounded would have to be used.

Yup, more red tape... Just something to think about.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by dwas:

This might be a stupid question, but how do you define the Weeks in your rules? ...

Hi dwas,

BCR months has only 4 weeks for ease of computations.

[dwas]

Got it.

[JeDi]

All, a bit of help?

I am using pen and paper as I cannot unzip the Biltaid program (I'm on Win XP..?)

Question1: rule states that I must choose MEch Inf for 1st battle, but it does not say for the next ones? so i've kept going for the same in my next battles.. correct? or can I choose what I want?

Question2: if Q1 correct, then the 653pts change ovetime as some troops improve etc. which means I need to go into QB first to check what's the points value to write on my sheet...?

Question3: Axis assault, it says divide by 1.72.. surely it's multiply?? you want to increase the assaulting units..?

Question4: I seem to have disproportionate Russian forces.. even in me Assaulting.

so still playing but blindly I guess.. :eek:

[atiff]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

But for us, the casualties roll = deaths, as we never get them back. ...

Point taken!

Now how to fix it or somefink?

The red tape involved with keeping track of each unit = how long they must stay away and how much exp they should retain, is a bit much. Unless someone can come up with a simple formula?

</font>

[Snowbart]

Jedi,

I suggest you keep the Mech Inf for a while, maybe the whole of '41. You can trade them in whenever you want though, at least I think.

Yes, you divide by 1.72 when you are assaulting. The reason is that you have already rolled up the points for your forces, so you take that number and divide it by 1.72(for assaults)and the resulting number is for the Ivans. This way you will have a bit more than the Russians. You will need more since on an assault they will be heavily dug in. Hope this helped.

[atiff]

Originally posted by JeDi:

All, a bit of help?

I am using pen and paper as I cannot unzip the Biltaid program (I'm on Win XP..?)

Question1: rule states that I must choose MEch Inf for 1st battle, but it does not say for the next ones? so i've kept going for the same in my next battles.. correct? or can I choose what I want?

The idea is you keep the same Core Units through all battles. So you should keep your Mech Inf for all battles. Of ourse, as the rules say, if you want to change things around, then feel free to do so.

Question2: if Q1 correct, then the 653pts change ovetime as some troops improve etc. which means I need to go into QB first to check what's the points value to write on my sheet...?

Yes, as they get XP then they will improve to Veteran, etc, and then you have to adjust the points totals.

Question3: Axis assault, it says divide by 1.72.. surely it's multiply?? you want to increase the assaulting units..?

If you are assaulting, you take YOUR total points and divide by 1.72 to find the points the Soviets have (and what size the battle is). Eg, if you have 1000 points, then 1000/1.72 = 581, round up to 600. So the battle is a 600 points Axis assualt, the Soviets have 600 points and you will actually have 600 x 1.72 = 1032 points to spend (you can use the few extra points to buy extra little things, as stated in the rules)

Question4: I seem to have disproportionate Russian forces.. even in me Assaulting.

...because the Soviets are usually Green or Conscript. This is very common - get use to it!

EG: One of my battles I was defending against a Soviet counter-assualt and there were something like 1,200 enemy infantry (about half a division!!!) to my 250 or so. Fortunately, I had 3 tanks and they didn't.... also, my two 150mm infantry guns caused something like 200 casualties each!

[History Buff]

I'm back.

Uni's been killing me with my political life also taking a hammering. But with only one essay left, "Why did the Soviets defeat Nazi Germany in WW2?" (FUN!) thought it was a good time to get back into CMBB mode. Only in Apr 1942 still. Anyone beat me yet?

[Joachim]

Originally posted by atiff:

Question3: Axis assault, it says divide by 1.72.. surely it's multiply?? you want to increase the assaulting units..?

The QB generator multiplies the assaulters forces with 1.72 - so if you as assaulter want to buy for 2000 points, you select 1250 (increment of 1162) and promptly are allowed to spend 2150 points (if it was not for the BCR restrictions).

Question4: I seem to have disproportionate Russian forces.. even in me Assaulting.

EG: One of my battles I was defending against a Soviet counter-assualt and there were something like 1,200 enemy infantry (about half a division!!!) to my 250 or so. Fortunately, I had 3 tanks and they didn't.... also, my two 150mm infantry guns caused something like 200 casualties each!

Played againts 2000 Partisans at night (65m viz), but had 6 tanks and a green Rifle Co as support. If the Partisans had attacked simultaneuosly, they would have entered the City and I would have had to abandon it.

The Soviet have more forces, but are led by the AI. You have a brain.

Gruß

Joachim

[SuperSulo]

Originally posted by History Buff:

Only in Apr 1942 still. Anyone beat me yet?

Early May 1942