atni tank rifles

[RooT]

what is the use of anti tank rifles? they dont seam to do anything to any tank i have come across they might work on light armour or half tracks but sombody using light tanks is rare.

everytime i have aimed a anti tank gun at even panzer 2 the chance of kill is :none

odd thing is they are extreamly common in some battalion intantry groups they seam to ahve like 12 of em.

[Brightblade]

It´s pretty unlikely that they kill tanks, yes, but they are hard to spot and they force the tanks to remain buttoned, so your ATG is less likely to be detected or your assaulting infantry has a better chance to succeed.

Besides that there is a low chance that the target may become immobile or recieves a gun damage.

So, if you have some ATR, use them. But I wouldn´t waste any points on buying them.

[Sergei]

They are a basic support element for infantry. While unable to harm a proper tank, they at least prevent your enemy from humiliating your troops with a single halftrack. Just like modern light anti-tank weapons aren't capable of harming an Abrams, they at least keep the Bradley's wary.

One typical strategy I favour is to have one strong arm with all my tanks, and one weaker one with a fraction of my forces. With the first one I break through the enemy front, with the latter I keep the rest of the front at check or pursue them if I notice that there is room for that. Now, I really want to concentrate every available tank with a gun to the main thrust, but just in case, I will try to give the other guys something to protect themselves with. An ATR is a cheap solution for this. If the enemy wants to attack them with an armoured car, they will be able to damage it. If he wants to attack them with a medium tank, well, the better for my attack, because it will be away from his main defense!

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Those damn German atni tanks are buggers aren't they.

Regards

Jim R.

[Michael Emrys]

Yeah, Jim. Wasn't Atni the god of fire somewhere? Would be appropriate.

Root and others, there are lots of things anti-tank rifles are good for in addition to plinking at tanks. As has been mentioned, they can be effective against light armor. But they are also dangerous against soft-skinned vehicles if your opponent is using those. And they will work on guns of all types. I've also used them for long range sniping against personnel units. Even when there isn't anything they can effectively shoot at, their eyes are useful since they have binoculars. Sometimes when I have a whole bunch of them, as when buying a Soviet battalion, I use them as scouts ahead of the main body.

Michael

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Sometimes when I have a whole bunch of them, as when buying a Soviet battalion, I use them as scouts ahead of the main body.

Michael

While someone might call this gamey, it isn't. The 14,5mm PTRS was the Soviet scout's choice. The late war variant came with 90 bullet magazines and a shoulder strap so that you could fire bursts from the hip. They needed all this firepower to defend themselves from being captured by the Germans, as all German infantry units TO&E included a young, blond Aryan (or possible an old fat one with a monocle) SS (even in Wehrmacht) officer (his rank was something like "Herr Übersturmgaubrennenführer") who enjoyed torturing enemy prisoners more than having sex, because, you see, usually the only available sex partner was the aforementioned old fat one with a monocle, and that isn't very enjoyable, not that I'd have a lot of experience but I've read so, and so you can believe you really don't want to be a prisoner of someone like that.

[Michael Emrys]

Uh, I'll take your word on that, good buddy.

:eek:

Michael

[RooT]

Thanks for all the usefull info that is one big draw back of buying some of those anti tank mechanised battalions. because you get a slew of atr with them. however if they can be ussed effectivly as scouts which is somthing i ahvent ever tired it would make these battlion purchases more attractive. too bad they dont have the semi auto or automatic modification in CM that could be allot of fun with a 14 mm shell

but I do intend on trying out this recon idea. So we will see how it goes.

as far as prisnors on the eastern front the life expectancy of prisnors held by eather side was not verry long. many prisnors were eather hanged or shot shortly after their captivity began. So most soldiers from both sides ussaly fought to the death if at all possible.

[RooT]

Well as odd luck would have it I found these documents on russain ATR at www.battlefeild.ru

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/bookshelf/weapons/weapons3.html

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/bookshelf/weapons/weapons9.html

pretty interesting reading if your into WWII eastern front history there isnt much usefull information for CM BB tactics in them but there is a little bit that could be incorperated.

[ September 10, 2003, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: RooT ]

[JasonC]

Not very useful as scouts. Send a half squad - no more expensive really and a lot more robust, as well as faster.

Use them with overwatch groups, along with snipers and mortars. Make full use of the range and stealth of all of the above. At 250m and up, all the enemy will get is a sound contact. Then make full use of the huge ammo load, to plink all day. You only want 1-2 with a given group, but any number of overwatch groups can benefit from their presence.

Sure the kill chance vs. anything above a half track is tiny. But who cares? They can't see you back if you fire at range, and with 4 of the things you've got 300 shots to throw their way. 1-2% chances of gun damage or immobilization start getting darn useful under those conditions.

You also button them for heavier AT, make them face forward or stay reasonably far away or both, keep enemy thin vehicles behind cover (thus making HE chucking power, in particular, more expensive) etc.

The key to using them is just to realize their greatest asset is their stealth, and instead of waiting for side angles and 100m ranges, just open as far as possible to burn ammo as fast as possible, never giving more than a sound contact in return.

[walpurgis nacht]

AT rifles are one of the most useful defensive tools in the game. The main thing to understand is that they can do dozens of crucial things, but they are subtle when compared to many of the other types of units in CMBB.

-) buttoning tanks:

Buttoning an enemy tank delays his reaction time. When timed correctly this will greatly aid everything from close infantry assaults on enemy armor, to regular tank vs. tank engagements. I.E. Your opponent has 1 tiger, and you have 5 t34s. You locate the Tiger. You carefully move your t34s into pouncing positions from various flanking points some dozen turns into the game. During this time you also move an AT rifle into LOS of the tiger. The turn you decide to pounce, time the attack so that your AT rifle opens up first, buttoning the Tiger, giving your t34s precious extra time to get shots off on the Tiger.

-) stealth: As has already been said, a key advantage of the AT rifle is that they remain unspotted over 300 meters, and can remain unspotted at much shorter distances than that.

-) defense: If you spend on a few AT rifles, you can setup a screen to take out enemy mech such as halftracks and recon vehicles. The key benefit to this is that you won’t have to unhide/waste an AT gun to kill enemy mech, or give the enemy intel on your armor composition.

-) spotting: AT rifles make for a great set of “eyes” because they have binoculars. Make sure you don’t “hide” these units on defense. There is no need. They will remain unspotted, even if they are not hiding, so long as you do not fire, and you keep enemy infantry from getting within 10 meters of them. Just give them a short cover arc so they will not shoot, and keep them unhidden. This should be done, BTW, with almost all your units on defense. Keep them up with cover arcs. The more “eyes” you have up, the more intel you get, and the better you can react to enemy movement.

-) mobility: Considering what AT rifles can kill, they are very reasonably mobile at “medium” speed. With no setup time like HMGs, that tends to feel even faster. They are also conveniently 2 man teams, so you can squeeze them onto t34s with a full squad already on board. And if you can transport them somewhere forward on the first turns of the game, you take a big bite out of that “medium” speed.

There are many more uses than this for AT rifles. Their key strength is their price in comparison to what they can do for you. They are precious because they are flexible.

Hope this helps.

[YankeeDog]

One additional note about ATRs that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

I have found them to be pretty useful at supressing ATGs.

I've found that once you spot an ATG, an ATR or two firing at it from moderate to long range will dramatically reduce the accuracy and ROF of the ATG. In fact, I can often get the gun to go 'pinned' with the fire of just one to two ATRs, even if the gun is in a foxhole.

Note that the ATRs generally won't KO the gun - they'll just suppress it to an extent. "Area Fire" on a gun's known location is also useless - you have to have the gun spotted so the ATR can bring it under observed fire.

I've found using ATRs in this way makes it much easier to jump the guns with tanks and take them out without losing a tank in the process. On-board mortars (or off-board arty, for that matter), can take out guns with little chance of losses, but sometimes in a rapid advance you don't have time to get the mortars set up (or wait for the arty barrage). Besides, many mortars don't fit on the backs of tanks, so unless you have other transport for them they often can't keep up with an armored advance.

There are other units that are better at suppressing spotted guns than ATRs (sharpshooters and MGs, for example), but sometimes you need to work with what you have. ATR's mobility, availability and cheapness make them pretty useful in the anti-gun role IMHO.

Cheers,

YD

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

One additional note about ATRs that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

I have found them to be pretty useful at supressing ATGs.

I guess this must have been too general for you: "And they will work on guns of all types."

Michael

[YankeeDog]

Whups, missed that little sentence buried in you post there. . .

Cheers,

YD

[undead reindeer cavalry]

i like it how the invinsible ATR fire makes the enemy commander stressed, sometimes causing him to make hasty decisions. same for the tank crews.

ATR squads rarely get wasted, so you won't lose victory points so easily.

[Sandstorm]

Oke .... maybe you know the feeling, there has been a large tank battle and only one enemy tank is over and you don't have any tanks .... Your infantry is gaining terrain against the enemy but can't go any further because that louzy tank is blocking the way for any serious infantry attack. But as a somewhat experienced player i bought 2 at rifles I advance to a flank with one squad and 1 at-rifle, the tank turns his back/side 4 to 5 shots and he's dead ... never saw his executioner.(Panzer-IVG)

[ September 23, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Sandstorm ]

[moik]

First suppressive fire to get them buttoned, then flank them and get them in the rear/sides.

However, a good opponent will always protect tanks with infantry and vice versa. Especially where tanks come close to tree lines, buildings, etc.

Moik

[Joachim]

Originally posted by moik:

First suppressive fire to get them buttoned, then flank them and get them in the rear/sides.

However, a good opponent will always protect tanks with infantry and vice versa. Especially where tanks come close to tree lines, buildings, etc.

Moik

A good opponent will always try to protect his flanks. He will try to do many things. But has only a given amount of troops. The threat of the ATR forces him to use his infantry as flank support, thus

a) restricts his tank moves

forces his inf to move and

c) leaves him out of resources for some other important task he knows he should do.

Or he decides that some other task has higher priority... pop goes the ATR. Boom! goes the tank.

Gruß

Joachim