I have some questions :D

[Santosdiablo]

I played the demo, and i want to know somethings

In the real game can you do so that your troops dont fire unlees you tell them to

It was annyoing when my troppers started fireing before the enemy hade just gone past me

And no they didnt see me until i started fireing i was hidden in a wood

In the real game can you tell your tanks to stand still and not move around when you dont want them to move

So iritating when the tank decides to move when it is fighting

Also in the real game is it possible to tell your troops what kind of ammo you want them to use that turn?

[Brent Pollock]

The short answers:

Use Cover Arc and Cover Armor to try and restrict shooting.

HQs with a good "?" rating help here.

Tanks and troops will often start (mis)behaving according to instructions from the TacAI (computer program - you can't do anything about it).

Other than smoke vs non-smoke usage, you cannot dictate use of AP/HE/Canister/HEAT/APDS/APCR/etc.

Read through your manual, as this is all covered therein. Also, head over to the Tips & Tricks forum and search there.

[Santosdiablo]

I havent bought the game yet only downloaded the demo

But thanks for the answers

IS-3

[Shmavis]

Also, your troops return fire without being ordered if they are fired on, and if the enemy is within range.

[Corvidae]

Hey, most games are like you say,, troops stay in place and die, tanks dont take initiative,, very dead and game-like,, cm uses fuzzy logic to make units behave like real troops in real situations,,,, they get scared,, confused,, etc etc,, they make decisions,,,,in cm,,, as in real combat,,,, units are motivated by survival,,,

you can order a cm squad to stay hidden, but if the enemy gets too close,, that squad may probably ignore orders and try to stop the enemy from getting any closer,,,, ,,

its not like cossacks or command and conquer, where units are single minded and robotic,, in cm units think,,, and act,,,

[Corvidae]

"So iritating when the tank decides to move when it is fighting"

get used to it, your tank is a crew of 2 or more men,,,,(or women if soviet), the driver will always turn the tank so the thickest armor is facing the enemy,,,,ie the front plate,,, also if the driver feels exposed,, he/she will throw into reverse and back away to a safer position,,

Also in the real game is it possible to tell your troops what kind of ammo you want them to use that turn?

the commander of the tank will decide based on knowlege and experience,,, he/she will also activly select targets,,, trust him/her

[Corvidae]

by all means,, get the full game,, play a lot,, you will like it,,,

[Santosdiablo]

Well in the demo the tank driver does not manouver so that the front is vs the enemy but so that the side is

Also In the demo you have Armour pirecing and high explosive rounds in tanks And i hate it when the schmuck uses HE on another tank

All you get is "the sheel broke off" and ricochet alot of ricochet cant spell it by the way

[Corvidae]

ok so you are playing the citadel schwerpunkt mission???, as allied or axis??? i loved that one,

[Santosdiablo]

Soviet ofcurse!

I can do it now by loseing 0 guys... if i save and load alot

But was is bad is that i could have such nice ass kills of the axis if just the antitank men would wait and hide until the axis just drive past

I place the tanks way up in the scatred trees to the left let the axis past then come out and shoot them from behind the computer aint really smart in the demo he just drives past even if some of the tanks are fighting

The other stuff except the 2 tanks i place it all in the woods wait until the rest of the tanks have driven by and just shoot em in the ass with the cannons

But i think i will get the game today.. if i get a manual till when you buy and if i can get it pc best buy because those are cheap

pc best buy is something we have here which makes some games chaper i think because the producer made to many of them and just want to sell em off

[Corvidae]

the soviet AT rifle is next to useless against the mark 3s and 4s. but good for making them button up,, sounds like you are having fun,,,

[Santosdiablo]

Ofcurse i am haveing fun

But no retailer has it in the shops they have never heard of it so i need to go online and the first page didnt have it in stock

BUT!

The second page has the fat box version so that i get the big manual

The At rifle is ok but the 12 gunsyou get can do some damage if you are close enough

It is just irratating that they give you two kv-1s

the S-version is the upgraded version which performs better and dosent break down so easily but when they made the S-version the also reduced the armour the only good thing about the KV tanks so it was pointless to keep produceing them

If they would have given in the demo the original KV tanks then 2 could knock out all of those 15 tanks because no panzer 3 or 4 can do **** to a KV tanks unless they get really really close

[tar]

The summary answer to your original questions is that the full game works just like the demo. There aren't any major game play difference between the two. So anything you like (or dislike) about the demo will be present in the full game. [Well, almost. If what you dislike about the demo is a lack of scenarios or an editor, the full game will definitely fix that.]

You do have commands that will solve some of your problems, but not all of them. That is partly because your troops will have minds of their own. It is important to learn how to use that and not to insist on doing too much micro-management. Sometimes it is necessary, but if you spend too much time giving specific targets, your overall army performance will drop and your ammo use will increase.

As mentioned above, giving cover arcs to your guns will get them to hold fire. There is very little choice about ammo type. The units pick what they think is best for the job at hand. The only real choice you have is with smoke if that is available.

[Other Means]

Originally posted by Santosdiablo:

{snip}

If they would have given in the demo the original KV tanks then 2 could knock out all of those 15 tanks because no panzer 3 or 4 can do **** to a KV tanks unless they get really really close

As you play you will realise that this isn't true. 15 tanks vs 1 tank, even if it's PzIII's or IV's vs a KV, do damage to the tanks tracks and vision systems. This is moddeled in the game so 15 to 1 would end up with the KV with a "gun hit" which means he can't shoot and "Immobilised" so he can't move. Usually the crew with then abandon it, if they haven't already. You'll get a lot of dead III's & IV's but having the bigger tank != assured victory. It's one of the things that make the game fun.

This kind of attack is called "hail fire" and was historically how lighter tanks took out heavier.

Good luck with the game.

[Deathsai]

Originally posted by Other Means:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Santosdiablo:

{snip}

If they would have given in the demo the original KV tanks then 2 could knock out all of those 15 tanks because no panzer 3 or 4 can do **** to a KV tanks unless they get really really close

As you play you will realise that this isn't true. 15 tanks vs 1 tank, even if it's PzIII's or IV's vs a KV, do damage to the tanks tracks and vision systems. This is moddeled in the game so 15 to 1 would end up with the KV with a "gun hit" which means he can't shoot and "Immobilised" so he can't move. Usually the crew with then abandon it, if they haven't already. You'll get a lot of dead III's & IV's but having the bigger tank != assured victory. It's one of the things that make the game fun.

This kind of attack is called "hail fire" and was historically how lighter tanks took out heavier.

Good luck with the game. </font>

[Corvidae]

while i did once take out a kv on the first shot with a 37mm armed pz38t, at about 600 or so meters,, it was a fluke shot,

the kind of shot you tell your kids and grandkids about,,

when i tried it a second time, i fired 11 times before a perfecly calm kv turned and blasted my tin can into a flaming mass of dead tank

because the kv in this mission is alone,, it needs to be protected, dont assume that thick armor is absolute,, the game calculates stress caused by multiple hits .. and the resulting weakening of armour,,, stressed armour can shatter like glass, there was never a variant of kv that was totaly invulnerable, and 10 pzIIIs with the 50mm L 60,,,, can kill any kv,, with luck and skill and organization

,,,,,,,,, they might loose half or more,, but its 10 to 1,, the numbers will tell,,,,

keep your kv safe,,

[Wicky]

Originally posted by Corvidae:

the game calculates stress caused by multiple hits .. and the resulting weakening of armour,,,

Can you post a source for this as I cannot see this featured in the CM:BB manual. (pg 47> *Armor Penetrations)

AFAIK the game treats each hit individually rather than cumulatively, except for multiple (non-penetrating?) hits which somehow cause a morale hit and an increased likelihood of abandonment.

*Some factors taken into account when determining

whether a round penetrates armor are:

armor thickness for front/side/rear as well as top/

turret/upper hull/lower hull

armor slope for all of the above

Side angle (i.e. obliquity)

Striking velocity (reduced by air resistance as the shell travels)

Armor quality (i.e. metallurgical flaws)

Face hardened or homogeneous armor plate

Brinnell Hardness Number (BHN)

Shot-to-plate diameter ratio

Shell 'cap' type and strength

Special ammo (like tungsten rounds)

Shot shatter

Shot traps (a design flaw in the vehicle shape which

tends to 'catch' shells rather than let them ricochet away)

Armor skirts ('Schürzen')

[ October 29, 2005, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

[Corvidae]

Wicky. its an assumption i made based on common sense,, i could be wrong ,,, but i've noticed that after a few hits,, penetrations get easyer,, and yes,, in real life,, metal does get brittle when pounded repeatedly,,

but no its not in the book

[Brent Pollock]

The only "stress" the game tracks is mental, not metal. Massed fire might freak out Conscript/Green crews, but that's about all the massing will do.

[Corvidae]

OK i stand corrected,,, Brent and Wicky,,, my appologies,,

thankyou

[Aco4bn187inf]

When I played that demo I remember one of my PZIV's spent pretty much the whole game in ROUTED status because of many many ATR hits- not bad work for the dumb old AI.

[Santosdiablo]

I ordered the game and combat mission 3 africa also

Lets hope they are nice

Are t-44 avalible in the game?

I know that they were built before the war ended but the high command didnt wat to use em because spare parts hadent been delivered and so but around some 150-200 were used in berlin(?)

So can you use t-44 in the game?

[Wicky]

Yes but T-44 looks like a T-34/85 due to shortage of CD disk space/deadlines/exhausted 3D modeller/BMPs artist...

Topic: IS-3 and T-44 Models

[Deathsai]

What is "internal armor flaking" if not cumulative armor damage?

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by Deathsai:

What is "internal armor flaking" if not cumulative armor damage?

A round that hits the armour plate that doesn't have enough energy to go all the way through.

If you play pool(some call it billiards) you can see the same thing happen. When you strike a group of balls the energy from the moving ball strikes the group and the ball on the back of the group flies off in another direction while the initial ball stops.

The energy was transfered to the other ball through the pile. That is roughly what happens to armour that is hit with enough force. The recent term for this is spalling.

Normally the armour doesn't break off in a single piece but many small ones. Like shattering a glass with a hammer blow. Those small pieces then fly around the inside of the AFV causing crew and equipment casuslties.

NATO's HEP and HESH rounds were initially made for this effect. They weren't designed to penetrate the vehicle, they were designed to have the vehicles armour break up on the inside.

Hope this helps.