THE RED ARMY & THE WEHRMACHT--anyone read it?

[John Kettler]

Found it by sheer happenstance and had never seen it

before. Has anyone here read it, and if so, what did you think of it, please?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879759372/dealtime-books-20/ref=nosim

Regards,

John Kettler

[Aco4bn187inf]

I don't know the book, but the subject certainly looks interesting. If you do end up buying it, would you post your comments on it here when you've read it?

[Redwolf]

There is a user review which looks useful:

2 of 2 people found the following review helpful:

Interesting book, January 18, 2006

Reviewer: Y. Mann (Brooklyn, NY United States) - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

Very technical and very detailed book about Werhmacht and Red Army cooperation. You'll read about the creation of tank testing grounds and schools for training tank crews, to artillery training grounds, checmical weapons testing, and even flight schools. Detailed reports from both sides about the advances being made, money being spent, research being conducted, etc. Worth the money if you have an interest in seeing exactly how much the Wehrmacht was able to accomplish in this period before Hitler came to power when the treaty between these two countries ended. Although I will say that the title is a bit misleading as the greatest part of the 'militarization' of Germany occured after Hitler came to power, not during the period described within the book.

I'd say this one is a little messed up by a bad publisher and possibly a little Russian coloring but looks like an interesting subject.

I wish Amazon could give us a couple bucks off the retail price. $35 is comparably high for an unproven book from an author and publisher nobody knows, not to mention you never know how much Russian wishful thinking is in there.

[Hammer-n-Sickle]

I haven't seen the book but I would have thought the title would have been about how the Germans helped industrialize Russia during the 20's

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Hammer-n-Sickle:

I haven't seen the book but I would have thought the title would have been about how the Germans helped industrialize Russia during the 20's

But the title includes the name "Wehrmacht" which was not in use in the 1920s...

[Hammer-n-Sickle]

But weren't they known as the Wehrmacht in 1933 which is supposedly encompassed in the book

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Hammer-n-Sickle:

But weren't they known as the Wehrmacht in 1933 which is supposedly encompassed in the book

But didn't 1933 happen after the 1920s ended? :confused:

The renaming was in 1935 in any event.

[-E]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hammer-n-Sickle:

But weren't they known as the Wehrmacht in 1933 which is supposedly encompassed in the book

But didn't 1933 happen after the 1920s ended?</font>

[Grisha]

From what a friend told me, I don't think this book is half bad. It covers the period of the Reichswehr when the Germans were still under the restrictions of the Versailles Treaty. The Soviets allowed the Germans to practice their tactical theories as it was being developed under von Seeckt (I remember the Germans had a school located as far away as Kazan). Much of it has been little known, so maybe this book offers some detailed insight into it all. What I find particularly interesting is if the Germans were in any way influenced by the Soviet development of operational art which was formulated exactly during this period. This would've been a time when the likes of Tukhachevskii and Triandafillov could've met with the likes of Beck.

[Grisha]

Also, you can get a better price here

abebooks.com

[civdiv]

How about this, much cheaper here;

http://www.powells.com/s?kw=red%20army%20and%20Wehrmacht

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&y=0&tn=red+army+and+wehrmacht&x=0

I highly recommend both Abe's and Powell's.

Edit: Ah, Grisha, beat me to it, I didn't read the whole string before I posted.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

Found it by sheer happenstance and had never seen it

before. Has anyone here read it, and if so, what did you think of it, please?

I've just finished reading the thing, having ordered a copy out of curiosity.

I read it fairly quickly -- it's not written in a style that rewards leisurely reading. In the first place, it consists of large dobs of Soviet offical prose, which can be turgid at the best of times, and in the second, it is poorly translated -- I suspect the authors did their own translation rather than employ a professional.

Even with these disadvantages, it could have been a good deal more worthwhile than it actually is. Unfortunately, the authors seem to have been so determined to let the reader make up his own mind from the evidence presented that they completely fail to provide any sort of narrative structure at all. I have come across some pretty dull books in both military history and computer science that were essentially PhD theses with a false beard and stuck-on nose. This book seems to have taken the trend to its illogical conclusion; it reads like a bunch of raw research material, before it is edited and organised to form a coherent thesis.

There is hardly any technical detail. The documents presented are not technical or tactical reference or instructional materials, which might have been interesting to the averagely-obsessive wargamer even with no attempt at narrative. They are inter-departmental administrative correspondence, and about as interesting as tepid dishwater. They are also remarkably hard to follow, as various code-names are not glossed and passing descriptions of devices under development are not followed up.

The publishers have made some pretty wild claims for the book in the back-flap blurb, which the text simply does not match. It seems quite clear that the Red Army did not do all that much to create the Wehrmacht; collaboration had ceased by the time Hitler seized power, and even during the heyday of German-Soviet cooperation there seems to have been a strong impression on the Soviet side that the Germans were the experts, and were not sharing their best stuff with the Sovs, either. It is also clear that the Reichswehr did as well, if not better, in technology transfer out the Americans (a visit to Edgewood Arsenal is mentioned) and the British (Napier Lion engines and Vickers tanks feature prominently, irritatingly mis-transliterated as Napir and Vikkers). What might perhaps be surprising to some is that the possibility of a future war between Germany, Poland and France was clearly foreseen in the 1920s, and the Reichswehr was preparing for a "best-of-two" revision of the Versailles Treaty long before Hitler came to power.

The book might be of some value to someone who has a need for rough translations of a bunch of original Soviet secret archive material from the era. The absence of any coherent narrative makes it pretty much useless for anyone else.

All the best,

John.

[Redwolf]

Thanks for the review, John.

What might perhaps be surprising to some is that the possibility of a future war between Germany, Poland and France was clearly foreseen in the 1920s, and the Reichswehr was preparing for a "best-of-two" revision of the Versailles Treaty long before Hitler came to power.

Any recommendations for a book that goes into more detail about this?

[John Kettler]

Appreciate all the feedback and loved the biting review. PhD theses with false beards and stuck on noses--too rich!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Grisha]

Thanks as well, John!

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Redwolf:

[snips]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />What might perhaps be surprising to some is that the possibility of a future war between Germany, Poland and France was clearly foreseen in the 1920s, and the Reichswehr was preparing for a "best-of-two" revision of the Versailles Treaty long before Hitler came to power.

Any recommendations for a book that goes into more detail about this? </font>