86smopuim Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 so all my long hard battling through A1 is for naught? Great idea Eichbaum. I dont know why I ingored thie thread title for so long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 25, 2003 Author Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Micheal Wittman: Just wondering though, do we go from Map "B1" to "A2" or from Map "B1" to Map "C1"A2 will be the last mission with the 'old' interface and strategic map. You can see A1, B1 and A2 as preview versions of what you can expect from us. If the new interface comes out you'll be starting somewhere else. Because we have also found old maps (Russian) of the whole strategy of Störfang you'll be playing similar battles but with different names and on different locations. It will get more realistic, more historical and more well thought of. The idea stays the same, maybe smaller maps and less units on it. A2 is huge. This will buy us time to develop and release our new interface. A1, B1 and A2 won't be seen in the new setup. They'll be left out but the strategic map is so huge that I that I think it won't be a problem. [ August 25, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 25, 2003 Author Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by 86smopuim: so all my long hard battling through A1 is for naught?No, certainly not. With the access codes from A1, B1 and A2 you'll get some advantage with the new interface. Just keep the codes somewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 25, 2003 Author Share Posted August 25, 2003 <center> Here is an impression of how the Operation will take place : (Please don't 'quote' this post, this pic is too big) </center> [ August 25, 2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 ***SPOILER ALERT*** *** there are some references to action in A1 in this post that might spoil some of the fun for you if you haven't played it yet - I've tried to keep these references as obtuse as possible*** Now that I've completed the first couple of battles in A1, I just wanted to put my vote in to keep the maps and forces large. While the turn calculation times can get kind of long (especially after the first battle when more forces show up), and I've sometimes had to reduce the tree and/or doodad coverage to keep the frame rate up, I've really enjoyed the opportunity to control such a large action. I also enjoy smaller map/force size CM fights, but I usually have to make the assumption for realism's sake that whatever is immediately 'off-map' on my flanks does not directly affect the engagement at hand. This is usually not much of an issue in a well-made scenario, but it does detract from the realism 'feel' of things somewhat, and I often find myself wondering things like whether I really could have made that flanking move, or whether enemy forces farther 'down the line' would have interdicted my movement. For me, the vast majority of the action in A1 has taken place within a km or so of the all-important road. As such, it certainly would have been possible to reduce the map width to 2km, or possibly even less, and still show 90% of what happened in my fights. About 30-40% of my forces (the ones I stationed on the flanks) could also have been left out without dramatically affecting the course of the action. However, I really enjoyed the challenge that the wider map presented. Rather than just tying my flanks into the map edge, I had to actually properly dress my flanks to guard against counterattack. As bumbling as the AI can be, whether by accident or design it sometimes comes up with pretty good tactical ideas and at one point the computer actually attempted a strong counterattack around my extreme right flank that would have been disasterous for me if I hadn't put a screen there to watch out for enemy movement - he would have had tanks among my trucks and other soft units. As it was, the advance warning my OP units gave me allowed me to countermarch and trap this counterattack in a near perfect right-angle ambush. None of this would have been possible on a narrower map - the AI wouldn't have had the room to attempt to end-run my line in the first place, and I certainly wouldn't have had the room to ambush his counterattack. In addition, the big maps made it more clear why transport and scouting units can be so valuable - I've never been so happy to have trucks in a CM fight before! I also have not found micromanagement too much of a chore. Frankly, I have not worried about whether my waypoints are perfectly plotted down to the meter, but have rather concerned myself with making big picture decisions like where and how to make my attack, etc. I have also tried to avoid the trap of thinking that most or all of my forces need to be doing something every turn - a significant part of my force sat out the entire first battle as a reserve, and other groups have spent large amounts of time in 'low maintenance' assignments, like guarding a flank, waiting to exploit a hole created/found by other units, etc. As a result, I'm usually only actively issuing orders to about 1/3 of my force at a time. Still, when I have found a weakness or opening in the enemy forces, lots of stuff has happened in a very short period of time. A few of the really 'hot' turns have taken more than a half hour to plot. At the other extreme, though, many turns have taken less than five minutes to plot because nothing particularly surprising has happened in the previous movie and I am simply continuing my previous plan with little or no modification. On average, orders plot time has certainly not been onerous. In summary, I feel that the big map adds realism factors to these operations not seen in most CM fights, and I have enjoyed them as a result. I do understand that the sheer size of things can be daunting to some computers and players, though, and others may simply find the larger scale less enjoyable. For myself, I enjoy the challenge of having to think on a larger tactical scale. My computer is also fairly new and I've been playing CM for a few years so I have found the battles quite managable. I can understand how older computers and/or newer players might find them difficult to handle, though. Perhaps some compromise is in order to make this excellent campaign more accessible/enjoyable for a broader spectrum of CM players, but I hope things will be kept big enough to allow larger tactical concerns to manifest. Keep up the good work! Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal Wittman Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Hi eichenbaum just wondering if you know when "A2" well be ready for download? CheerZ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegerMeister Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 I'm with Yankee Dog !...i'm loving using the recon elements properly through this great terrain, and having armoured columns with trucks etc stretched out down forest lanes prone to partisan ambush/air attack waiting to move ahead once enemy dispositions are spotted....Realism being the key word! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Yes, that's a very nice post that YankeeDog wrote there. Thanks YD! It describes perfectly what's Operation Storfang is about. A while ago I was playing the (very nice) Bliztkrieg operation from the CMBB CD with PBEM. I think that was the trigger for me to make the maps a bit larger the usual. Gee, I'm almost speechless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Micheal Wittman: Hi eichenbaum just wondering if you know when "A2" well be ready for download? CheerZ! Hey, impatient customers. I like that! A2 is still being tested (and refined). This scenario is a bit larger then A1 or B1. Maybe a week or so and it will be tested enough for the release. What do you think JaegerMeister ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by YankeeDog: ***SPOILER ALERT*** *** there are some references to action in A1 in this post that might spoil some of the fun for you if you haven't played it yet - I've tried to keep these references as obtuse as possible*** Glad my memory fails fromtime to time... Now that I've completed the first couple of battles in A1, I just wanted to put my vote in to keep the maps and forces large. YD I second this. Though it takes very long to play these maps, the possibility of maneuvering is very important. Large scenarios avoid several problems - units out of ammo can be taken out of the line, you can concentrate your Schwerpunkt, have a wider array of available different units for different tasks and the loss of a single unit does not mean the loss of the whold battle. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Did anybody combined the forces in B1 as described in the mission briefing ? What were the results of that decision ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAUS_TD Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 He Nils, so i've read the treats but i hope you give the people who love big or huge battles still some atention. One of the most things i like about your scenario is that is very beautiful very big, and alot of different troops. I've never these kind of problems (maybe because i've p4 2.6GHz with 600mhz fsb and 128md geforce)Please continue with those big or bigger battles. And I must be one of the few who downed b1 but iám really waiting for the a2. I finished b1 already many weeks ago. But when you make a new interface i've start all over again??? The picture you showed of the new map doesnt look so big as the one you are using right now. But keep up the great work because this is really one superb scenario 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 Originally posted by MAUS_TD: The picture you showed of the new map doesnt look so big as the one you are using right now.The new map is about 200 km wide. The old version 16 km. And the old version has the wrong scale (200%). You won't be playing all over the new map but on specific locations. Terrain where a war can't be fought will be left out (such as rough mountains etc). In the end you'll have almost the same amount of ground gained then you would with the old map. So don't worry about that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 A1, Battle 2 reporting in. Spoilers A1, Battle 1 Rommanians made a good show of them selfs, taking out 3 tanks and a load of infantry without any help. A1 Battle 2: ?240? landed on ALL my trucks. Gone. Luckily empty. Immobilized 3 HTs as well. Sombody forgot to tell the damn ruskies "Resistence is futile". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Originally posted by eichenbaum: Did anybody combined the forces in B1 as described in the mission briefing ? What were the results of that decision ? Yes. The result was that I wasted too much time on lateral movement in the first battle. Combined with other factors, it led to my not making it to the end of the map. Since I don't like playing the same scenario twice, I now have a wee problem... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eichenbaum: Did anybody combined the forces in B1 as described in the mission briefing ? What were the results of that decision ? Yes. The result was that I wasted too much time on lateral movement in the first battle. Combined with other factors, it led to my not making it to the end of the map. Since I don't like playing the same scenario twice, I now have a wee problem... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 *** SPOILER ALERT *** Here's a full account of my battle : After spotting the wire obstacles, I was convinced that the Russkies had roadblocks on both the dirt road where Blödman starts off and on the highway, at the points where they cut through the forest. I was worried that Blödman's guns would be taken out by mortars or guns hidden in the treeline in front of them so I got them out of there as fast as possible. I teamed up his infantry with the Leibstandarte men to try and push through the forest towards the factory. It turned out the Soviets had quite a bit of infantry in there so I got slowed down a lot. Meanwhile I was trying to cart the 150mm guns over to the Romanians on the right to deal with the infantry in trenches ahead of their starting line. They were very slow in getting there, partly because they came under fire from a KV-1. So after the first battle neither the Leibstandarte nor the Romanians had made much progress. In the second battle the Romanians started off at the source of the river, supported by a platoon of StuGs, another of ACs, the mortar halftracks and the sIG-33. The Leibstandarte would keep pushing through the woods. The Romanians advanced well, driving the Soviet infantry before them, until they ran out of ammo. During this time, I saw a lot of fleeting contacts between the forest and the highway, so I hit that area with all the artillery I had, hoping to engulf a big bunch of enemy infantry in an inferno. Too late did I realize that these units were not moving FORWARD, but SIDEWAYS, into the river valley and straight towards the ammo-starved Romanians. The company was completely wiped out and I had a lot of trouble saving the AFVs behind them. Good move by the AI ! The only positive thing here was that I managed to knock out the KV-1 with the sIG . The Leibstandarte now ran into a hornet's nest of Maxims. There were at least a dozen of them and it was a nightmare. I couldn't leave them alive, because we were heading into the open country and they would have cut us up. But again it took ages to take them out. In the end I concentrated too much on destroying the enemy and not enough on taking ground, I think. I was misled by the fact that the battlewindow was so much smaller in this op. I had no idea the map would be so big. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 SPOILERS : Tanks Kelly. That's a good and useful report. Did you use smoke for your advance in the open field ? You got that right about the roadblock. If you advanced with the guns you could have got a nasty surprise. A2 will be 3km deep to. As in B1 the window battle is only 2km deep. You need to advance more then 1 km before the end of the map becomes visible. Then all access codes will be visible to. So how smaller the window battle, how faster you need to move towards the objectives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 Release Mission Rumänische Torte (A2) tomorrow, 31 August ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Originally posted by eichenbaum: Release Mission Rumänische Torte (A2) tomorrow, 31 August ! Cripes, that's Sunday taken care of Morning or Afternoon? so I can plan when to eat and drink.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 Originally posted by Wicky: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eichenbaum: Release Mission Rumänische Torte (A2) tomorrow, 31 August ! Cripes, that's Sunday taken care of Morning or Afternoon? so I can plan when to eat and drink.... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 A1 completed. Constructive criticisms: Op code released to early. On 3rd battle begining I saw it. Hadn't quite captured second way point yet. This puts me in the camp of "smaller battles". B1 will be completed soon, so keep 'em coming. 2 Player Storfang... hmmm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 <center> <marquee><h1>A2 Released</h1></marquee> Mission Rumänische Torte (A2) Click here to download (Sevastopol_A2.zip - 84KB) </center> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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