Any info. on the release??????

[glezmez]

:eek: I need to get some sleep so someone please give me some info on the release date.

HIGHLY APPRECIATED.

[Aloid]

Originally posted by glezmez:

:eek: I need to get some sleep so someone please give me some info on the release date.

HIGHLY APPRECIATED.

"VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY SOON..."

of course they didn't say what unit of measure that is in... could be in "glacial time units"

Which could work out to be in 100 years!

Aloid

I want my SCV (Strategic Command Vibe)

[hags]

(muted - with permission from the author)

[ July 05, 2002, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Moon ]

[pzgndr]

a few moments with a hex editor

Hmmmm. While nobody's listening to what you're not saying, perhaps we could not think about the possibility of a separate program to edit SC files? There are numerous examples of this being done for other games in the past. It would be preferable for Hubert himself to offer something like this as a future enhancement. But if a simple hex editor is all that is required, then the modders will have a field day. It's an interesting idea to not think about, while we're NOT playing the SC Gold Demo, yet.

[Delta]

Whats a hex editor? Isnt that just the map?

And no, I wouldnt just mod the thing and not get the full game.... I might do that if it were from a huge ass company just churning out games, but this is Huberts game and I will pay him all 25 bucks he rightfully deserves.... I just wanna play the game NOW :eek:

[Rediroc]

God I really hate computer game company's release dates. They are always building hype and they are never accurate. :mad: Lets not forget, the latest update happened 6/29, a Saturday, so its not like the update must happen during the week.

[waltero]

sure, but why

wait for the complete game?

Can you master the demo? I always find more to take!

Why wait for the game???

[jfstup]

let's be patient! i am an old board wargame

general and have many underdeveloped, poorly

designed, rules badly written, improperly playtested wargames on my shelves while playing

the few really good ones over and over. i to am

(fighting this battle of impatience} but it is one we need to win. so let's wait for a really

good game.

[pzgndr]

Whats a hex editor? Isnt that just the map?

No, this is a hexadecimal editor, like WinHex or something. If the SC files like can be edited, then modders may be able to change some game parameters or even develop a translator program for others to use. This wouldn't touch the proprietary executable code, which should be copyrighted, just the data files it uses, like the cnf, inf and snf files. Panzer General and other games have had third-party editor programs developed to do stuff like this. Hopefully Hubert will do something along these lines before someone else does and just make it part of the game editor package in some future release. :cool:

[pzgndr]

I notice other posts by hags have been locked out because of his rude comments about hacking into the game files. This is a sensitive issue, and I have tried to be very repsectful of proprietary rights with my previous comments. Battlefront may want to clarify what mods are appropriate and legal, and what's not. Obviously we can open the image and sound files, edit them, and share our mods with others. This is even encouraged by Battlefront, for both Combat Mission and Strategic Command.

Proprietary source code is one thing, but the various data files provided with the game are something else. If game data files other bmp and wav files can also be edited, where is the line drawn between right and wrong? What mods are allowed and what mods aren't? If a third-party develops a file editor with an embedded translator program, is that OK or not? This isn't about hacking into source code, just data files containing game parameters and scenario information.

Sensitive or not, it's an open issue now and Battlefront should provide clear guidance.

[SuperTed]

This should help a little...

[pzgndr]

SuperTed, I raised a valid issue which needs to be addressed and resolved. I did read Hubert's update earlier and was as disappointed as everyone else at the turn of events. So much so, considering some of the comments I made earlier and how they might be interpreted, that I sent Hubert a personal note offering an apology for anything I said which may have contributed to this mess. However, I am not responsible for what hags did or what others may do. The bottom line is that game data files may have to be encrypted somehow or else the fact accepted that they can be modded. This is not necessarily a bad or illegal thing to do, but something Hubert and Battlefront need to figure out and deal with.

I'll add that SC is a great game with a lot of wonderful features, and Hubert's effort should be acknowledged and respected. It's a shame that one individual can spoil so much for so many, virtually overnight. Let's hope this passes quickly and we all move on to happy gaming.

[Straha]

Bill, I don't think that anyone here believes that you or your posts have anything to do with what that idiot hags did.

Basically, normally, what is allowed to mod are open source files like *.txt *.bmp etc which contain info about certain game parameters or graphics. AFAIK the exefiles are always totally off limits for modders except when the company (usually years) later decides to publish the source code especially for that purpose.

I just thought that there is maybe, just maybe, some small bright side to the hags-scandal. What I mean is that it is better that something like this happened *before* the actual release of the game. Now, some additional things can be done to encrypt and safeguard the main exefiles etc.

Straha

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Straha:

Bill, I don't think that anyone here believes that you or your posts have anything to do with what that idiot hags did.

I agree.

Bill was being Bill, which means analyzing everything to the Nth degree.

[pzgndr]

Thanks, I needed to clear the air and make sure there isn't a bullseye on my back or something. :eek:

I don't think the .exe files are a concern here. Source code is proprietary and hacking into it is clearly wrong and illegal. Besides, reverse engineering C++ hasn't been very successful, and Eiffel code is probably harder still. The problem lies with the other stuff, like scenario files and others. This is a fuzzy gray area. I'm very interested to know how this all works out in the end, for the mutual benefit of everyone - developers and modders.

[Hubert Cater]

Not to worry there is no target on your back Bill, but in terms an official answer, nothing in the game itself is allowed to be edited or changed without violating the intellectual property rights and/or copyrights. This includes the game exe, the game data files as well as the game's bitmaps and sound files.

There is no problem with modding and that includes developing your own bitmap and sound files and using it with the game, but anything else would require strict permission to do so.

While this may not please everybody, it does protect the game integrity and clearly avoids issues like the one today. There is a campaign editor that will allow you to edit the existing campaigns and create new ones, perhaps I may release additional editors in the future, or perhaps something even better than that, and that would be a more advanced version that will include many of the additional features not currently included and/or additional advanced game mechanics as per many of your requests.

The current design is meant to be the game that it is (a game that bridges depth with playability), and any further advancements with a deeper rules base or detailed game mechanics will be for a different game some time down the road.

Hope that helps,

Hubert

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Hubert Cater:

The current design is meant to be the game that it is (a game that bridges depth with playability), and any further advancements with a deeper rules base or detailed game mechanics will be for a different game some time down the road.

Hooray Hubert! :cool:

Boy, are we ever WITH YOU on that one! This one, the next one, ANY one you care to create!

[Straha]

Just wanted to clarify that when I wrote above "normally allowed to mod" I meant "normally allowed by the developer/publisher" and not "allowed by the law, even without consent". Hubert is perfectly right with his description of the legal situation.

Straha

[Delta]

How come you cant mod the units and stuff when the full game comes out? Just look at Valve with half life, tons of things were modded, and entire new games were created. What are we supposed to do down the road, albiet a pretty darn long road, when we get bored of SC? We wont be able to mod the game so that it will be different? As in, have some german units really tough (SS), and some really really bad (militia at end of war). We wont be able to mod the map either? Or make a new map or add to the map so that the world would be the map? I think thats silly, and that after the release, it should be allowed to mod the files (not the EXE file, but some of the game files, needed to be modded in order to make a mod).

Sorry if this post doesnt seem coherent, but im extrememly tired and need some sleep

[blackbellamy]

legal gobbledygook aside, speaking from a strictly marketing perspective, the more moddable a game is the bigger it's appeal and longevity

i understand hacking up the demo to extend play is not desirable from the perspective of the intellectual property owner, who relies on the profits from the full version, but after release, what possible harm can come from someone hacking the exe file to change some game mechanics like combat odds, or maybe AI behavior?

the "vision" argument is not compelling to the consumer. the consumer is not interested in the author's vision of how the game is supposed to be played, or that something can't be changed because it will somehow ruin everything. the consumer is only interested in getting total enjoyment from the product, and anything hindering that is counterproductive. for examples check out major game software releases for the past three years. see how the most moddable ones are the most popular, and enjoy the most longevity?

prohibiting the total modding of this product does nothing but set up an adversarial relationship with the consumers. it doesn't protect anything in the end.

[Hubert Cater]

Please read my last post here.