A New Beginning-Invitational Tourney

[John Kettler]

Treeburst155,

It is correct as written. When time is short and resources are few, bazookas, PIATs and 'schrecks can be quite galling and surprisingly effective vs. infantry and related targets, particularly for a target in scattered trees or woods, thanks to treebursts. Several people on the board have reported demoralization effects far greater than their blast values for using manportable AT in this way.

Need I remind you that the M-72 LAW was routinely used exactly this way in Vietnam? It functioned as throwaway direct fire artillery for the individual GI. The dreaded RPG-2 filled the same function for the VC and NVA, but was naturally not a throwaway weapon.

You might be interested to know that the HEAT warhead for a bazooka round and the 60mm mortar warhead had common threads. According to my uncle, who served in the Navy (Boat Two) and fought across Europe with Patton, providing LCM transport at river crossings, a favored street fighting trick was to swap out the bazooka warhead for a rocket armed with a sensitively fuzed 60mm mortar warhead. This delightful melange was then fired through the open window (usually blown in) of the target building and upon striking the nearest wall, detonated and sprayed the entire room with mortar fragments. Contrast this with the usual bazooka drill in which one fired at the wall just below the window, the idea being to use the shaped charge to blast part of the wall into the occupants, along with the jet itself and the liner.

Personally, I think that manportable AT weapons are undermodeled in CMBO when used against point targets like MG nests and similar. One good shot should permanently decommission the weapon and the weapon crew. Just imagine what it would be like to be firing out from an embrasure in a stone hut and have, say, a PIAT round detonate anywhere on or near the opening. Goodbye!

Hope this clears things up.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Jarmo]

Yep. Using AT weapons to suppress infantry is OK and somewhat effective in CM too. In fact I've used my exess piats against Kettlers infantry throughout the game.

I believe shaped charges and AP rounds are somewhat more effective (both in RL and in CM) against troops in buildings than against troops in the open.

---

BTW, yes I've been lucky with my AT here, but it also helps to use piats from short distances. The 3 tank killer team had all the kills from under 20 meters or so. The kill from about 100 meters took a couple of shots before the hit.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Jarmo ]

[Claymore]

It is with a heavy heart gentlemen that I must announce my withdrawal from the Tournament (and CM PBEM).

The real world has been nipping at my heels for quite some time now and I have tried my best to ignore its incessant yapping. Unfortunately, a prolonged hiatus of at least two months is almost assured just to put things to right. If only my family considered food and shelter as luxuries, I could continue my slothful pursuits.

I'll be looking in at the forum and watching you knuckleheads batter away at each other, so keep up the chatter.

Cheers

Murray

[Fuerte]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Claymore:

It is with a heavy heart gentlemen that I must announce my withdrawal from the Tournament (and CM PBEM). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no! I had my hope in you after Berli left.

Now if Fionn, CapDog, Texas Toast, Jarmo and Shandorf retired as well, then I would have a small chance of winning this tournament.

Shandorf: He has too many infantry units in the flag area in the middle.

Ari: This is going so poorly now.

I have only two games going now... Claymore are you going to finish our game, or a total quit? So somebody challenge me.

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Claymore:

It is with a heavy heart gentlemen that I must announce my withdrawal from the Tournament (and CM PBEM).

The real world has been nipping at my heels for quite some time now and I have tried my best to ignore its incessant yapping. Unfortunately, a prolonged hiatus of at least two months is almost assured just to put things to right. If only my family considered food and shelter as luxuries, I could continue my slothful pursuits.

I'll be looking in at the forum and watching you knuckleheads batter away at each other, so keep up the chatter.

Cheers

Murray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just when our action was getting good! I do hope you will return to finish -- if not in time for the tournament, then certainly before CMBB.

Best wishes.

[Treeburst155]

The standings will be updated shortly to reflect Claymore's withdrawal. The only one still active that is affected by it is Jarmo, I believe.

We are down to 15 people now. This tournament may actually finish before 2003 if we lose a few more.

Treeburst155 out.

[Marlow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treeburst155:

We are down to 15 people now. This tournament may actually finish before 2003 if we lose a few more.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it should be the WineCape attritional tournament.

[Treeburst155]

Yeah, the last man left wins it all!

Treeburst155 out.

[Mick_Oz]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Yeah, the last man left wins it all!

Treeburst155 out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Found out at last! This has been my strategy all along. Will everybody drop out please, especially Texas, Fionn and Shandorf. While I'm here, a little update on the state of combat:

Herr Berli:

This is a very interesting town fight (if a glacially slow one). Berli has brought at least five clunking turretless beasts into this contest..one of which has been knocked out. Therefore, I believe him to be fatally deficient in grunts. He is going after my buildings but that will take him a long time. No kudos for my Wasp on the last turn, which aimed to set a key building ablaze and instead set the ground in front of it on fire, preserving the building. If I can keep my infantry intact and knock out his sluggish armour, the game will be won.. though by how much I couldn't predict.

CDIC:

Well, dammit, he's added my Churchill to his infernal list of such kills. My only consolation in this one is that I've extracted a bit of blood from his crack uber-Gerbils. With night and myopic visibility, I can still inflict some pain on him.. but I fear he will win the day (or the night). A ceasefire is looking attractive...hmmmmmm

I'm about to begin hostilities with Fuerte but nothing happening yet.. he's taking the Allies in a largely unrestricted fight.

[John Kettler]

It's all over except the accounting (end of game screen) in KettlervsJarmo. My Mark IV H behind the building by bridge two stuck to his guns and killed the presumed TD, which was another Firefly. Naturally, this positive development was not allowed to stand, for Jarmo's ghost tank (gray graphic) emerged from trees to the rear of town and trashed my poor Mark IV H with a single shot. My infantry pulled back from the building near this tormentor and is planning to immolate yet another Firefly which showed up next to the one I just killed. Meanwhile, a probable platoon HQ is shooting at the backs of my men. The firefights raged across the gulch, and my Wirbelwind, spraying multiple buildings while slowly moving with a heavy building between it and Jarmo's tanks on bridge four, actually survived the game; it's the only armor I have left.

My display shows I hold bridge three (Wirbelwind, infantry and platoon HQ), him with bridge four (infantry and two more Fireflies), and the other two in dispute. Jarmo tells me artillery and a little tank fire have all but destroyed the infantry in his flank attack. I do not believe he has any functioning units by bridge one because of this, so it may stay disputed. Much hinges on who gets bridge two. I tend to believe that my overall losses are greater than his, so if I don't get bridge two I have no hope at all of winning. Realistically, a draw is probably the

best I can hope for, barring a miracle. I'm overdue for one. Now would be great!

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Any German naps in progress in my fight against Shandorf have now been ended by the near simultaneous arrival of 155 and VT fires this turn.

The 155 volleys landed in and around the center crossroads mostly, apparently dropping squarely upon some sort of German AFV, now defunct. My display shows a Jagdpanzer IV/L70, but I'm inherently suspicious because of FOW. It could just as easily be a Hetzer or StuG. It's dead whatever it was. My guys heard a tremendous explosion and clang, following which there were no motor sounds. Another round landed practically in the lap of housed German infantry with which I'd had a spirited firefight earlier. It ripped up a wooden house without even a direct hit. The occupants are probably deaf, too. Short rounds remain a problem, and 155 only adds to the scale of that problem, for one dropped on my side of the hill. It was not warmly received.

The VT, directed at the troops in and around the rightmost crossroads, seems to be producing a chorus of German complaints about body parts, but a VT short demolished a jeep

and did nothing for the occupant/s either. Thank goodness it was commandeered, not on my books!

It is now Turn 20, I'm allegedly winning (hold two VLs), and I'm advancing via infiltration tactics, not headlong rushes into the teeth of German defenses. I like to think I learn from my mistakes.

That's all for now. Still waiting for the end of game screen from Jarmo.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Fuerte]

I took a break from wargaming, but I am going to wake up my troops again on this weekend.

[Jarmo]

All done against Kettler, my major victory.

I ended up holding 3 of the 4 flags (one disputed), although I can't imagine why I got the second flag, both of us were pretty far from it. Well, I guess my men were about 10 meters closer.

My rivercrossing attack force, originally a platoon of infantry with an extra Piat, 3 fireflys and a sherman V, was down to one firefly, the sherman and handful of men. Still enough.

The top ranking slayer of the fight was Cpl Anderson's Piat team. They killed a Jagdpanther and two Panzer IV's.

Very happy with the outcome, almost everything worked like charm. Gods of war were with me.

[KiwiJoe]

John what the hell are u doing moving tanks to within 20m of PIAT teams? If your gonna advance your afvs forward you have to scout out with infantry/light vehicles etc. Getting ocassionly poped by AT teams at 100m+ is part of the game, lossing several pieces of armour to them at ranges that short is bad play, nothing personal

[Treeburst155]

Jarmo,

Congratulations on your latest victory! I've got force purchases from MickOZ for your game with him. We are waiting on you.

Treeburst155 out.

[John Kettler]

The gods of war were with Jarmo in our battle. I absolutely agree. They went way out of their way to micturate in my firing pan. What am I saying? Sometimes, they simply removed it altogether.

He had a previously undetected intact fire team near bridge one. So far as I knew, he had no functional units even close, just routed and broken ones from my artillery and tank fires. I thought that would be a disputed one. Bridge one to him. Ouch!

Bridge two was up for grabs. I thought it would wind up disputed and prayed he wouldn't get it. Wrong. Had lots of infantry, even some on the gulch bank.

Bridge three I thought was mine. I poured every bit of fire I could on his positions, but he had far more than I could detect. Wound up disputed, in spite of my Wirbelwind. A shock and a crushing blow.

Bridge four was solidly Canadian. He had two Fireflies on it, plus a 2 inch mortar team and a sharpshooter close by.

So, I hoped for two VLs, expected one, got zero. He got three.

This was supposed to be an armor game (800 pts. minimum), but I wound up in a city fight in fog while weak in infantry. He had a company of regulars to my two platoons, one regular, one green. That infantry deficiency in quality and quantity ate me alive ultimately, for I couldn't simultaneously defend and attack, as he could and did. I was hard pressed to keep my green troops fighting and functioning in even heavy buildings. He would've massacred them in a crossing, and I would've been overrun sooner. Essentially, I had a platoon each defending one of the interior bridges, while screening the outer two.

The abundance of cover and concealment, not to mention the fog, made life wonderful for his PIATs, which inflicted the lion's share of my armor losses, and I couldn't return the favor because his infantry was everywhere. My economy of force measures cost me a 234/1 to a short round, in turn setting me up for the bogging and eventual loss of a veteran Jagdpanther (no kills) at bridge one and the loss of a crack sharpshooter (didn't inflict a casualty) and a Puppchen (killed by offset aimpoint fire before it could fire a shot) at bridge four. Armor losses were horrendous: vet Jagdpanther, four regular Mk IV H, a regular 234/1, and a regular StuH.

The PIAT team that killed three of my AFVs seemed to move at warp speed, generally never miss, and was unfazed even by a Nebelwerfer round dropping right next to it while in a building. I certainly never expected a unit so closely near missed to be able to ignore a 15cm Nebelwerfer round, let alone quickly advance through one big building, cross the sward, enter another building and close on my tank, which was stalking a tank sound contact which was shooting up my hastily redeployed infantry. Next thing I know, my tank is ignoring the assigned target, turning its turret to the PIAT, then dead.

Jarmo played well, and his force was better suited than mine for the unexpected combat environment, but the numerous tactical breaks he got, especially the phenomenal weapon accuracy and plethora of first round kills, at the very least hugely widened his margin of victory. The only case I'm sure of where he needed multiple attacks was against the highly motivated Jagdpanther reversing after unbogging. Generally, he seemed to have precision guided weapons. It was devastating and demoralizing.

Jarmo has singlehandedly ruined my upward trend from my dismal tourney start. 20, 24, and 20 don't average to the 22 I had before this game. Grr.

Things are still up in the air with Shandorf in what seems to be a very close game. He's got some sort of armor on the move to the left of the church, is blazing away from the buildings I almost dropped a 155 round atop, and is telling me to "bring it on" in Turn 21.

Artillery is due to land this turn, and I'm hoping for major pain and discomfiture on his end as results. Meanwhile, I'm on the wary move in several sectors. He just got through pounding my guys with his mortars in the last movie.

It's really nice to have the board back. A huge help to my sanity, since it gives me both a diversion and an outlet of sorts.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ 09-16-2001: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Capitalistdoginchina]

Having just dispatched MickOz i have room on my plate for one or 2 more tourney games.

Anyone ready to enter negotiations?

CDIC

[Jarmo]

Mail me your preferences.

I'm at:

jarmo.laakso@tintti.net

I'm open to all kinds of ideas.

[Capitalistdoginchina]

Hi Jarmo,

E-mail sent - you can choose sides, lets do the negotiations.

CDIC

[Treeburst155]

CapitalistDogInChina has defeated MickOZ, 59-41. Congratulations, CDIC!! The standings have been updated.

Treeburst155 out.

[John Kettler]

Treeburst155,

The tourney standings link (the first one) still doesn't work. Please fix this. I keep getting a "we don't have that page, but here's

our home page" response.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The tourney standings link (the first one) still doesn't work. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Works for me..

[Treeburst155]

Hi John,

If you are using Netscape you may have problems with the standings link. I really have no idea how to fix this. I just learned a little HTML so I could post the standings. There is a fix I posted to this thread awhile back that involves manually changing some characters. Check back a page or two or three.

Treeburst155 out.

[Capitalistdoginchina]

I have the opposite problem to J K - i can open the tourney standings page but i cannot open the Michael Dorosh tourney statistics webpage.

CDIC

[John Kettler]

Since the fight with Jarmo is now mercifully concluded, I am in need of a battle, actually two, since there are only three turns left in the battle against Shandorf. I like the random side assignment by judge, buy force, get blind map, then random side reassignment by judge first used in my battle with Jarmo. At a stroke, it eliminates a multitude of problems and guarantees balanced forces.

Theoretically, I have two battles going in Wild Bill's Rumblings of War, but technical problems have left both games stalled at the start lines.

Shandorf was again heard from after remaining incommunicado for several days. His return was greeted enthusiastically with VT and 155 fires.

Before my greeting arrived, though, his was personally delivered--as direct fires into an occupied building by an AFV which may or may not be a StuG. Some of my infantry in the caretaker's house in the grave yard on the hill diagonally across from and in front of the church found the greeting a bit effusive and left the premises. Shortly thereafter, the ground heaved and shuddered, and the sky sundered as the shattering 155mm blasts and VT airbursts crashed onto the center of Shandorf's line. The presumed StuG got quite a shock when the road directly in front of it blew up, and German infantry took further abuse, some of it lethal, from VT fires. Am on the move in several sectors, but I plan no crazed charges. The game is still up in the air.

Regards,

John Kettler