Gremlin Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Good points. The ironic thing is that even on an old P3 450 or so (assuming 128 RAM and a decent vid card), you can already get smooth, extremely realistic graphics in today's games. With the hardware that will be commonplace by the time CM2 comes out, even more realistic graphics will be possible. Check this out for an example: http://www.zdnet.com/gamespot/filters/products/screenindex/0,11104,370446-2,00.html and try the demo for the full effect. (Great game, btw.) ------------------ When men are inhuman, take care not to feel towards them as they do towards other humans. --Marcus Aurelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by David Aitken: Michael Dorosh wrote: > 512 different voices for all the different leaders Surely you mean unique circumstancially-aware computer-generated speech? =) That is what CM offers now, right? But you don't think this represents the end of the line, right? I certainly don't. When I bought Knights of the Sky by Microprose, or M1 Tank platoon, they could only model a handful of vehicles. M1 Tank platoon could model at most two friendly tank platoons against a company of enemy armour, without infatnry. CM can pit a regiment against a regmient, all in 3D. That's a huge (exponential?) leap forward, with the improved graphics and sound that went with it. But you couldn't have had CM back when M1 Tank Platoon came out, because no one would have had the hardware, or the money to afford said hardware. As you well know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Michael Dorosh wrote: > That is what CM offers now, right? Nah, I was kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by David Aitken: Michael Dorosh wrote: > That is what CM offers now, right? Nah, I was kidding. I thought so at first, then wasn't sure. I got hung up on "computer generated". The speech in CM is obvioulsy not computer generated - it is canned - however, it is as you know unique (according to circumstance, though each circumstance brings up the same .wav file), and it is dictated by different circumstances. You don't think 15 years down the road, we will be seeing exactly what you described? ------------------ <A HREF="http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm http://members.home.net/canuckmain/ http://highlanders.freehosting.net/" TARGET=_blank>http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmbits.htm http://members.home.net/canuckmain/ http://highlanders.freehosting.net/</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by The Commissar: All Now, lets hop 18 months in to the future. That 1Ghz processor will cost less then $50. The GeForce 2 with its gigantic (for our time) 64MG RAM will also cost much much much less then it does now. If you cant afford an upgrade that will cost you less the $50, you shouldnt be playing CM! Buy yourself some food and re-furnish the cardboard box you live in! Now that is CLASSIC! "If you can't afford an upgrade that will cost you less the $50, you shouldnt be playing CM! Buy yourself some food and re-furnish the cardboard box you live in!" What will these faster better upgrades cost in 18 months, well The Commissar says it should cost you just another $100 after you pay for the game. In Canada, the game, (if it costs the same as CM1 when released), will cost you about $80.00 CND and the upgrades to 18 month old technology (if you can find it used somewhere) should run you about $250- 350 CND. Maybe I am ALL wrong about the 18 month prodcution cycle at BTS for the next release of CM2 but I'm not wrong about Moore's law. I think The Commissar makes a great point worth repeating: "If you can't afford an upgrade that will cost you less the $50, you shouldnt be playing CM! Buy yourself some food and re-furnish the cardboard box you live in!" !!!! And now...... I will be flamed..... (or so I should imagine) (I can live with it) -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 01-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Current stated *minimum* requirements for CM: Windows 95/98/ME/2000 Pentium (P5) 166MHz w/3D card Pentium (P5) 200MHz w/o 3D card 32MB of RAM 100MB of Hard Disk Space (est.) CD ROM drive DirectX 6.0 compatible video card DirectX 6.0 compatible sound card 28.8 modem for multiplayer At this time, you could not buy that system new if you wanted to. In fact, if I owned such a system, I think the best use for it would be as a door stop. I sure wouldn't even *try* to run CM on it. It might crawl, but it certainly would not run. The best thing for BTS to do is allow CM2 to scale, so that those with high end systems can get something out of it, and it will still run on the lower end systems out there also, albeit not as well or quickly. But if the standard for "running" is defined by how CM1 will run on the stated minimum system now, then that is a very weak standard. So it would be nice if CM2 takes davatage of some of the higher end systems, but not at the expense of freezing out those with the average or below average systems. However, my understanding is that CM2 will *not* be an engine re-write, which means that hopefully it will no take anywhere near 18 months, and that it will likely not include any drastic changes in the graphics. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Sad how quickly we prey on the jr's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Tom, I was obviously joking. However, I stand by my point. When CM was released, just about anyone had the specs to run it. If you didnt, you can find a used 200MHz for under $20. A 4Meg 3d card? Even less. In fact, to support my original point even further, thanks to the ever-quickening advance of computer hardware, prices will go lower as hardware specs go higher. Now, again, think about it. If you cant afford something in the area of $50 for a gaming experience that will blow you away, you're just a whiner (no offense to you directly, tom). Im 16 and I can afford $50 by working part time. Since most of the people on this board are older or the same age as I am, Im assuming (incorrectly for some, maybe) that you have jobs and get a suitable income with which you can purchase the low-priced upgrade. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Heidman, Responding to what you said: The average system today, let's say a Pent 3 500MHz, will be worth very little in 18 months. Its not worth a lot today! In 18 months, I expect the average system to be what todays super-hot-stuff system is. A 1.5 Gig maybe. If not higher. Just making a point. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Khann Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Jeff H. wrote: <hr> Current stated *minimum* requirements for CM: Windows 95/98/ME/2000 Pentium (P5) 166MHz w/3D card Pentium (P5) 200MHz w/o 3D card 32MB of RAM 100MB of Hard Disk Space (est.) CD ROM drive DirectX 6.0 compatible video card DirectX 6.0 compatible sound card 28.8 modem for multiplayer At this time, you could not buy that system new if you wanted to. In fact, if I owned such a system, I think the best use for it would be as a door stop. I sure wouldn't even *try* to run CM on it. It might crawl, but it certainly would not run. <hr> I'm all for graphic improvements. Obviously not at the expense of Charles' time to code more nifty features into the engine, but in my book how CM looks and sounds IS important. However, I feel I should comment on your comments... Actually, I have an old P166 that I've retained just to run CM on a LAN. With a 16MB Voodoo 3 2000, it RUNS (not crawls) CM just fine. Can't have all the mods installed on that machine, or play a Huge scenario, but it's still just fine. Which is a tribute to how well this software is coded. Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by The Commissar: In 18 months, I expect the average system to be what todays super-hot-stuff system is. A 1.5 Gig maybe. If not higher. The average upgrade cycle for computers is 36 months for PCs and 48 months for macs, IIRC. So, essentially, most of the people who bought their computers today and have 800 or 850 or 933 mhz procs will probably not buy new computers until some time in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by The Commissar: Tom, I was obviously joking. Now, again, think about it. If you cant afford something in the area of $50 for a gaming experience that will blow you away, you're just a whiner (no offense to you directly, tom). Im 16 and I can afford $50 by working part time. Cheers! Hi Commisar, I was agreeing with you completely ALL the way. I liked what you had to say the first time, so much that I repeated it twice in my post. I'm ALOT older than 16 but I'm glad you are as keen, aware, and optimistic about the future of technology as you are! Play CM and keep up the good work! (there'll be plenty of jobs for folks like you in the future.) I can't even imgaine what it would be like to be 16 right now and interested in working with cmputer technology 4-5 years in the future in my early 20's. Commisar I think You are VERY lucky! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Guy w/gun: Sad how quickly we prey on the jr's... Gunny Bunnys been a board member for a while now. He's just opened old wounds thats all. If you wish to tilt at windmills and save Princesses carry on. [This message has been edited by Bastables (edited 01-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Terence, no offense, but those figures sound way off. Most people seem to upgrade their comps once a year or so, more frequently if they're hobbyists (from either the software or hardware perspective.) Three-year old computers desperately need upgrading for today's software. ------------------ When men are inhuman, take care not to feel towards them as they do towards other humans. --Marcus Aurelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 BTS would be foolish to expect their customers to go buy a "new" system, say $300-$600, just to play. There are people beside those, me included, who post on this board. BTW, I play CM on a PII 333, Vodoo 3 3000 and 128MB RAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Hedges Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 What world do you people live in? I really don't think that the average computer owner -- or CM player for that matter - replaces his computer every third year. I don't even think that the average computer owner could run a GeForce card because (1) the computer that they own would be too old; or (2) the newer computer would not have an AGP slot (most value computers have an "integrated AGP" card, which means no slot. For that matter, I'm not sure how cheap it is for people with Compaqs or Gateways or whatever to just install a new motherboard. Which is not to say that graphics aren't important, or that CM shouldn't upgrade their graphics, but they should do it based on the computers that *most* people actually have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikey D Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 PLEASE don't pork-up CM2 so much that we'll need to buy new computers! I had to buy a new computer to run CM1! Technology may advance on a 15 month cycle, but my finances don't. A little love and attention will go a long way to make CM2 buyable. Look at CM1 after the aftermarket grass and vehicles and skies and houses and faces and uniforms and trees... from a darned good game to a DAMNED good nearly virtual reality game. Did Bigtime Software imagine a virtual cottage industry would spring up upgrading their CM art for them? After all that, I do think all the soldiers should have their own working wristwatches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Mikey D: What? Your salary doesn't double every 15 months! AAHH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Posted by David: This is a definitive thread on the subject of graphics. Best to read it instead of rerunning the debate here. David It would seem that david has a chip on his shoulder regarding any talk about improved graphics. No seriously, It does seem that people are quick to the punch if they do not approve of something on this BB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 If you wish to tilt at windmills and save Princesses carry on. That was so stupid and sarcastic I don't have the first clue how to respond to your attempt at insulting me with Don Quixote. I will continue to bring up the very provable fact that if a jr. member says something others find odd, insensible, or not agreeable, they are more likely to pounce on him or her than a well established "member" Now I hope that everyone will choose to disregard this and stick to the discussion. [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 01-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I'd just like to chime in a one of those people who don't plan on upgrading their computer in the near future. Right now I have a Rev. D iMac (333MHz, 96MB RAM, 6MB Rage Pro, OS 8.6) and CM runs just dandily on it. So does Unreal Tournament (with some of the visual effects toned down, of course) and any other game I care to play at the moment. I'm not a real hardcore gamer (don't really have the time anymore), and I don't plan on buying a new computer for a couple of years (don't really have the money). -Andrew ------------------ "No, it's not that kind of relationship. We're just friends. We are together all the time, but I never touch her porcelain skin, her soft, red lips, like rose petals from the emperor's bathwater! Bathwater, I tell you, bathwateeeeeeer!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Guy w/gun: I will continue to bring up the very provable fact that if a jr. member says something others find odd, insensible, or not agreeable, they are more likely to pounce on him or her than a well established "member" Nah - you get shot down as fast if you are a member. If somebody says something incredibly stupid I don't waste time on checking their status. BTW - Gunnybunny has been around a while, and I know at least one Jr. Member who has been on the board since the Alpha Demo. That teaches you to be careful to jump to conclusions. Time and posting around here does not prevent you from making stupid statements, as my own record shows. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 The big deal is the old timers who whine when something has been discussed somewhere back in the 5 million different threads. Just ignore them when they jump up and down and demand that you search and you will be fine. That's what I do. As for the topic at hand - I really do think that computer owners DO replace every three years. I haven't wanted to, but I have - simply because the software I run demands it. Not just games, but graphics programs, the software for my video capture and digital camera, etc. I lease, so when the 2 year lease is up, I pay the dollar to buy it and then go lease a new one. It's not that expensive, really, and I'd rather pay to have decent computer and internet than I would crappy TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Time and posting around here does not prevent you from making stupid statements, as my own record shows. True, true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Why buy new computers at all? Do what I do and upgrade in parts! It costs much less the buying a brand new machine, and you can buy specifically what you need (ie: a faster processor) ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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