Sergei Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Those of you who have made large operations (amount of troops involved and total length in turns), how much testing you usually invest into them before putting them to the Scenario Depot? Most huge operations are fun only with human players, because if the AI can screw things up in a 20 minute battle, then it means a catastrophy for a 200 minute operation. But PBEM takes time, and for a long operation it takes more time. So do you guys (and gals? hmm, ARE there actually any female scenario designers??) test your works thoroughly, or do you just put them up and maybe edit them afterwards if someone gives feedback? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I try to limit things to 5 battles or so. That said, TCP is your friend. WWB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 I guess TCP/IP makes it a little swifter, although I don't know how well that works for huge operations - the more there is stuff about, the longer the other one (the one with less troops, aka. defender) has to wait. But I shall try that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonxa Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I'm free until late august. So if you want to TCP (or PBEM, at least the setup) something big I'm up for it. Have been at CM since the beta demo and have played through regimental sized battles so I should be a decent opponent. Just send me the setup! cheers P.S. Time zone is GMT+1 but as I said, I'm on vacation so I can play on odd hours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I'm testing a scen right now that is 70+ turns and has about 10000+ pts for each side. Playing since beginning of the year, now turn 34. So guess how long an op would take.... guess TCP is the way to go. The advantage of a single scen is that I knew several things that needed adjustment rather early. I doubt the 2nd half will influence my decision despite the fact that both lost less than 5% of their total forces and my opponent will receive tons of reinforcements soon. Discussing brought some clues. Errors or lucks in the beginning can screw the balance so much that any test does not make sense afterwards. I am one of those people who want an immersive game that is fun to play. That's more important than the score. If you cater these kind of player, you don't have to care much about play balance. Guestimates will do. Then play it at least once to check if your guestimates hold. Maybe try an "live AAR" like at MZO to discuss tactics and guestimate their outcome - a genius might come up with a tactic that completely unbalances a game while a conservative approach sees a perfectly balanced scen. Or just play it with KarlXII... and make sure you discuss moves or possible tactics. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I don't think any amount of testing with huge operations can account for all of the variables. Luck will always have it's day with everything, and the more days you have... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 i just found out about variable weather in ops. i restarted an op three times. the first was overcast, second rain, third clear. i think that changes los distance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I think it changes everything! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: [QB] Those of you who have made large operations (amount of troops involved and total length in turns), how much testing you usually invest into them before putting them to the Scenario Depot? /QB]I've just designed one op (quick plug - its over at the proving grounds 'Kampfgruppe Langkei attacks' Not the most imaginative of names, but it does exactly what it says on the tin!). Before sending it over to the 'grounds I played through it myself against the AI 5 times just to iron out ther obvious niggles. the op is designed to be played as the German attacker Vs Soviet AI, I gues designing one for two player would be more challening to test play given the timesacles to plot moves etc. Hope this helps? ps is it going to be a good Christmas tree crop this year? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by KarlXII: I'm free until late august. So if you want to TCP (or PBEM, at least the setup) something big I'm up for it. Have been at CM since the beta demo and have played through regimental sized battles so I should be a decent opponent. Just send me the setup! Okay, I'll do that... time difference shouldn't be a big issue between Finland and Sweden. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Joachim: I'm testing a scen right now that is 70+ turns and has about 10000+ pts for each side. Playing since beginning of the year, now turn 34.So you too play with Andreas! :mad: Yes, I agree with the immersion thing... as long as it's fun for both, it works. Or as my friend always says when he loses, "you may have won the points but I was the moral victor!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonxa Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KarlXII: I'm free until late august. So if you want to TCP (or PBEM, at least the setup) something big I'm up for it. Have been at CM since the beta demo and have played through regimental sized battles so I should be a decent opponent. Just send me the setup! Okay, I'll do that... time difference shouldn't be a big issue between Finland and Sweden. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 At an average speed of one email a day (or less) testing an op by PBEM is pretty much impossible, unless you are content to release one op every year or so. I just attempt to make my ops as best I can, and then release them to the community. I'm always willing to revise them if a problem is found. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 That's something I hoped to hear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manstein22 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Hi Sergei First to your initial topic: I test the huge operations first against the AI and change things whenever I come across a major fault . When I believe I have done a fair job I send this version to my friend and he has a short look on it, say 2 or 3 battles out of the operation. Then I send this to the Proving Grounds. I played my LastChance operation for about 9 months on TCP/IP and started with Ladoga some days ago. The problem with both operations is that I need a fair amount of time to think and rethink my moves :confused: and that is too much for my friends nerves. So we try now my Ladoga - meanwhile version 1.5- on PBEM and that will surely take a long time. So what I want to say is that IMO TCP/IP is good for operations with battles engaging up to 2000 pts Manstein 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joachim: I'm testing a scen right now that is 70+ turns and has about 10000+ pts for each side. Playing since beginning of the year, now turn 34.So you too play with Andreas! :mad: </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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