Defending Against the Assault, a CM Guide

[JasonC]

I understand taking the plane for the fun of it - sure. I also grok the comment "SMG's are simply too deadly". Defending is tough. Defending with the Allies is tougher. Defending with the Allies against SMG infantry in tight terrain is getting silly.

Guns work much better for the Germans, because they have more types and cheaper ones. A 40mm Bofors costs three times what a 20mm FLAK does, and twice what a 75mm infantry gun does. The US MG teams are more affordable; bazookas are cheap too. A mix works best.

Either way you try to use them behind sighting blocks, when they can see a reasonable distance to a "trigger" obstacle that blocks LOS farther forward, to keep down suppressing fire opportunities. If the terrain doesn't do that, then sure you don't get as much out of them, as when you can find some terrain somewhere that is good for them.

I think you did understand my point about the mines, though. A covered route into your positions is not the end of the world, if you mine at least one such route and give the attackers a bloody nose along it. That direction can act as a "shield", to keep you from being overrun.

You also need TRPs and to call the artillery close. But with or without them, you really can't afford the attitude "I have to fire the arty now or he will be too close and I will have friendly fire losses". That is the one thing I'd forcefully change, even more than the force selection stuff.

While in contact is the right time to call defending arty. But TRPs help in tight terrain, to get it to land close but not too close, and when needed even out of LOS. Then the foxholes have to do some of the work, protecting your guys from the shorter rounds - or a short pull-back to a rear, secondary line.

The close arty has to work with the mines to create area-denial effects. Meaning, a barrage when coming down is a sort of extension of a minefield - both have in common that they do more, the more comes after you at once. And then those areas walk.

You'd still be likely to lose, with Allied defenders against SMG infantry, in an infantry heavy enemy force, with attacker's odds, on a tight terrain map. LOL. But no mines or TRPs, and relatively wasted (and over-abundant) fire support, is obviously going to make it even worse than it would otherwise be.

Which can of course be fun in its own right, to be sure...

[JasonC]

On tactical counterattacks, I find what I as a defender can actually get together for them is usually -

1 platoon of infantry in the area of the jump-off. Sometimes with its hair a bit mussed already.

1 platoon of reserve infantry, sometimes a company HQ with a wee bit more. Generally in good shape.

A few teams, AT or MG or both.

0-3 AFVs, typically nothing special, 2 StuG or 2 of those and 1 StuH for example, or a couple of Shermans or Allied TDs. At best. Sometimes none, sometimes 1 AFV.

One FO that can dedicate most of its fire to the counterattack, though I'd prefer to save one short fire mission as "final protective fire", for later.

Leading with tanks in such an affair, I'd never try. I doubt it would work. Often the tanks are missing altogether, or only one is available. As always with defending AFVs, the watchword is the clean kill then repositioning, not bludgeoning ahead.

The tanks support, taking out isolated enemy positions and especially hunting for enemy armor, protected by the infantry ahead of them. The artillery breaks some portion of the enemy force, and the infantry kills it while it is still suppressed.

The infantry then typically sets up someplace, able to deliver follow-on fire from an important angle, or just to defend themselves with enough firepower behind some crest or something. Sometimes the whole movement allows an AFV or two, or an MG or two, to set up where they can deliver flanking fire on another portion of the map.

Enemy artillery and playing "tag" with it, in the sense of getting back out if heavy stuff comes down accurately, is often the #1 problem. Sometimes I've misjudged the whole affair and have to call it off rapidly with some loss. Sometimes the enemy presses elsewhere while the reserve is busy with the counterattack.

They are still definitely worth it in my opinion. They keep attackers honest, or punish them for carelessness. Many attackers will act as though they can maneuver with impunity, and leave nothing out of main efforts for security, or don't bother holding anything like a line.

A secondary attack, meant to probe, or feint and fool the defender, and thus not pressed too hard, can sometimes be butchered in a matter of minutes. Freeing the counterattackers for other work, and imposing a steep VP cost as well.

The basic idea is an attacker expecting just a platoon in some area faces twice that or more, plus artillery support. It is much better to get a decisive punch in somewhere then move the feet, than to hold off such probes with equal forces, and get outnumbered and pushed around elsewhere.

Often you will get pushed around elsewhere, where the attacker has massed most of his force, anyway - indeed, whatever you do, if he goes "heavy" enough on that side. But you better make him pay on his "weak" "wing" for that, or the attrition of it will break you.

For me, that is what counterattacks do. They let the defender also get in his many-on-one "licks", instead of standing still while only the attacker does. And they force the attacker to think in terms of the vunerability of his own forces, not just flowing over the defense.

[The_Capt]

Panzer Leader,

I think you hit on a very important point...What is realistic does not make a very fun game. In reality trying to slog thru a couple of mine belts is crazy. In fact the assault force is usually so depleted that a breakout force punches in behind it. As to the real position, I would be more than willing to set it up. I could figure what an Engr platoon (with M&E) could do in say a 36 hr period (I'd get that from the pubs and my own experience) and put it on the map in support of a 2500 pt defending force. I think you might get an idea of why 3-1 or higher is needed in RL even on a wide front. I am not sure if it will help develop tactics for a CM defence but it may be interesting.

There is a problem with flanking in RL as well...the fact that flanking units make it almost impossible. But again let's not go too far down the RL road.

I have noticed that CM take tactics to it's roots and quickly strips away the non-essentials when small unit actions are involved. Infantry is most important followed by arty. Once you have sufficent numbers of that you can fill in the rest, AT, obstacles, armour but if you fail to cover the basics you are doomed.

Make sure to mention the power of the Reverse slope. For the defence there is no other choice.

[Panzer Leader]

Hey Capt! I would be interested in seeing that. Perhaps you could set up an example of your "36 hour" defense and then we could either play it out or we could look it over or something? If you do, set it up as a scenario, but try not to be too "perfect" with the terrain. Remember that this is a hasty defense and not meant to be a perfect fortress. I think 2,500 points would work, as long as a majority of the points are spent on the defensive material. This would be Axis defending right. What would counter-attack, a Reinforced Allied Battalion, maybe with 3-8 tanks (whatever the points will buy) and some brigade artillery?

I am very interested in seeing your defensive set up with this much preparation.

[The_Capt]

OK, I'll set it up and send you the Engineer Plan (ie obstacles) for 36 hours of work and good support from higher, maybe a hvy equipment sect (couple of dozers) and all the M&E we need. No pillboxes as they take weeks not hours to build.

The 2500 points will be above and beyond and fit into the plan, otherwise you may have a platoon left out of the 2500 points to defend. You would be amazed at what 3 sects and 2 dozers can do going flat out.

[Hedgehog]

I seem to have the opposite problem. My assaults I win 50% and when defending I win almost all the time(especially playing the germans).

[Panzer Leader]

Hedgedog, I believe you might be playing the AI? It is known that the AI does very well on defense but lacks a certain skill in the Assault.

So, capt, let me see, this 2,500 points, is it ALL going to be spent on preparations, or does that include the defending force?

[Soddball]

Inspired by this thread, I ran a QB assault last night. I took allies on defence and had 700 pts, Mar 1945 - computer picked all forces. Terrain was light hills, light woods, rural.

My setup was at the top of a slope, which continued down for 300m, then curved back up again for 150m. At the bottom of this miniature valley were woods and tall pines. Scattered trees covered a patch 60m squared in the centre of the slope on my side.

(If you're still confused, think of the layout as a bit like a ski jump with trees in the lowest point). Victory flags were at the top of the slope. There was no reverse slope to cower behind

The computer allocated me 2 platoons regular infantry, 2 57mm AT guns, 1 vanilla sherman and 1 regular HT.

I placed both 57mm guns in the tiny patches of woods at the top of the slope, and hid the infantry in the scattered woods halfway up the slope. The tank and HT I tucked away in the edge of the woods.

The gamey AI had picked a veteran Panther Vg, 2 veteran Jpz IV, an 81mm mortar HT, an spw 234/1 and 1 platoon of veteran motorised SS infantry with supporting MG.

I lost the sherman and HT in the second turn for no hits to any enemy units, whilst the Axis 81mm HT died from a 57mm AT round.

On turn 3 one of my 57mm guns nailed a JpzIV in the side, and was immediately suppressed by 20mm rounds from the armoured car. He bailed 2 turns later without firing another shot.

The battle was turned by my remaining 57mm AT gun. The crew scored a side hit on the Panther, knocking it out, and a turn later, hit a patch of woods with 'infantry?' hiding in it. This turned out to be a 240mm spotter - and a single round landed next to my gun crew before the spotter team died.

The gun crew then proceeded to nail the second JpzIV, followed by the Armoured car, and then rout the infantry as they cut their way through my rifle squads.

Whilst I know the AI isn't good on assaults, I thought this might be an interesting example of a tiny assault action. I was surprised at the effectiveness of those light AT guns against german heavy tanks. If they're in foxholes in woods the AI has a hell of a time finding them (even unbuttoned). I got a fair number of pings and a greater number of misses. It also confirmed my suspicion (and what everyone else probably knows) that tanks aren't a great deal of use on the defence.

[The_Capt]

Panzer Leader

The obstacles are going to be laid as per real engineer capabilities (ie if you were an Bn CO and had an Engr Platoon attached for a defence, this is what you could expect to see). The 2500 points is for the defender, I was thinking of a Bn reinforced. This way you can see just how much the engineers would normally put out in a defence scenario. This would be a defence in which they will have 36 hrs to prep (ie before enemy contact). This is old tactics btw based on WWII, the new system attaches a Sqn/Coy of engineers to a Bn. BTW this is British Canadian doctrine but the US are very similar if a bit more centralized.

Now a 2000 point map is 1355m frontage to defend so I will use that. I will also turn the map around and show some more depth, a Bn will thru patrolling, Bn guards, recce screen, OPs and LPs exert a depth of deployment much deeper than a QB as well weapons will be sighted for max effective range. I think this may show how in CM, pricing of obstacles is much like comparing apples to oranges. Obstacles are a function of time, engineer resources and terrain. So 10 AT mine squares do not equal a platoon. When the cost of training and using a platoon is much higher than the 1 hr it will take for an engineer platoon to emplace the mines (of which there will be millions pushed forward). Same for wire etc. You see the biggest problem I have with QBs is that you are chasing your shadow. You will need 5000 points to set up a prepared defence but once you use 5000 points your frontage increases drastically so you need more points. If you want something which resembles reality you are going to need to max out the frontage (4000m) and then place an entire Bde along it and still be thin. Then your attacking force will come in waves. In short an entire Operation would have to be set up.

Now that is not to say one cannot do QB defences but what they are is a Covering Force skirmish. Where Div and Bde forward detachments establich hasty defences and smack an incoming force. Big difference is that a Covering Force won't stick around to defend flags but stage withdrawls once they've smacked the enemy.

What would be really interesting is to set up an Operation which takes one thru the entire operation, Recce/Deep Battle, Covering Force Battle, MDA battle. It would be huge but give a picture of reality. You see in CM you can model this stuff but it really takes a long time.

Anyway I should be able to get this thing done in a few days.

[Panzer Leader]

Thanks Capt. Can't wait to see it. I like your operation idea. I wonder if its been done. I think you are right that the cm Assault/defense QB is more like a hasty defense or a delay than a true strongpoint defense. What would be different in a defense is that the defender should get those mines etc for free.

[ScoutPL]

I'll stick to my other earlier comment:

I dont play QB's.

I really hate Jason spent so much effort on his reply earlier, but I really dont care to respond. I'm sure everyone understands where I stand in the greater picture and to be honest I hate conversations that entail percentages and odds ratios and all that. I play for the tactical challenges not to figure out the fairest numbers game. And I'm not taking a jab at Jason here either, if he wants to devote his precious time to that then please do so. I'm sure everyone will benefit in the long run if he is proven correct.

He is right in saying I was mixing apples and oranges (although he took an aweful long narrative to say it). Bottom line: I dont play QB's for all the reasons discussed here, so I really should back graciously out of this discussion.

Scout

[Panzer Leader]

Hey Scout, just so you know, the article that I am writing, and this thread to generate ideas and discussion, are not only devoted to QBs but to any game of CM that includes a defender and attacker. In fact, it is especially important to a scenario designer, who needs to keep all this in mind.

I think one of the things Jason was saying was that your writings showed a pretty perfect example of what you wanted to show, but that is okay since it was a LESSON, and not a true AAR.

But anyway, your contribution has been appreciated.

[L.Tankersley]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The_Capt:

I think you hit on a very important point...What is realistic does not make a very fun game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different strokes for different folks.

I get a lot of enjoyment out of (trying to) use realistic tactics and force mixes in similarly realistic situations. Success here often doesn't translate to "winning" in the CM AAR screen, especially in QBs were I think there are a lot of balance problems notwithstanding the cherry-picking issue.

QBs are also fun, from more of a direct-competition standpoint, but again there are balance issues that make CM a flawed "game" (if you are looking for a pure contest of skill).

Fun is where you find it. There's usually a pleasant opponent involved somewhere, though.

[Micheal Wittman]

Hello Gentlemen, I'm posting some pictures

for review from a present battle as me on defense. I find myself playing defense about

65% of the time. It doesn't feel fare to send

someone a setup with me on attack, ( not that

i'm that good ). It just seems to me the attacker has the upper hand for a few reasons

already mentioned.

As far as my battle goes, I have frustration,

being, how the heck can you stop the attacker

on such a wide front with minamal resources!?

Although In this battle I pretty much knocked

out 2/3rd's of his troops, he still managed to flank me with 2 super pershings and a sherman :mad:

Thank You MrSpkr!

[ 05-31-2001: Message edited by: Micheal Wittman ]

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Micheal Wittman:

Hello Gentlemen, I'm posting some pictures

for review from a present battle as me on defense.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Michael - you need to post your pictures elsewhere on the net Photopoint is a good place - then link to them in your post. You can't link to your desktop and you can't post pix directly to the bulletin board.

[Claymore]

Ok, so I say to myself "self, why not spout off what you think?"

So, here's MY rules I live by (otherwise you die) for defending against an assault. I'll say right off that even the insanely obvious will be covered in this treatise.

1. Choose what is reasonable to defend

A wise German (for 2pts name him) once said "He who defends everything, defends nothing". So the first thing to do is Select View #4 and fly around the battlefield. Take a good long look at the approach lanes from your opponents side of the battlefield and then pause and look at the landscape again. You will likely be given a number of VLs to defend…pick a subset which fall under the rules which follow below. If you break an attacker sufficiently then there may be time to occupy those far flung VLs before the game ends. You are trying to win here and so you must maximize your chances.

Important factors (in no particular order)

Map Edges: If one of your choices has a flank covered by a map edge, that's obviously one flank you need not cover. It's gamey but what can you do?

Reverse Slopes: If you can keep your forces on the reverse slope and catch him as he crests the relief, then this is very attractive defensive location.

Flanking Terrain: Infantry under fire from two (or more) axis rout far quicker. Tanks have thinner armour on the sides and rear than the front. If your chosen defensive location has a terrain feature offering strong flank protection then the advantages are manifold. The smaller ATGs are especially potent placed in such locations.

Mutual Support: Your defensive locations must have mutually supporting lines of fire support. The Maginot line fortresses were often placed without such concerns and when they weren't bypassed but assaulted they paid for it.

Always have better cover than the attacker: ALWAYS. Plan your defense so that when your attacker and you start into a firefight he has poorer cover than your men. If he is going to be in SCATTERED WOODS, you need to be in HEAVY BUILDINGS or FULL WOODS. Don't rely on the bonus of foxholes. ALWAYS be in TERRAIN at least which is (as far as cover is concerned) BETTER than the attacker.

Think Angles! Two "units" of firepower arriving along one axis is much weaker than the same firepower along two axis separated by at least 45 degrees. Your opponent will likely have VET (or better) troopers in his assault and you need to push them into route/panic mode ASAP.

Armour will NEVER arrive before Infantry: Only the entirely nieve will send their armour against you first. You need not plan for them since they likely have too many other tactical problems for them ever to win. Therefore always expect the armour to lag behind the infantry by at least 100-200m. That means putting zooks/Pshreks in front of your main defenses is a bad idea. They will be overrun or flushed out by the attacking infantry before they ever get in a shot. Either way they are poor runners and will quickly die.

2. Placing Fortifications (No bunkers, pillboxes or roadblocks)

WIRE: In my experience most attackers will shun barbed wire like the plague. This is mostly true for infantry but I have seen it mirrored in their armour behaviour as well. They know that you are protecting that avenue of attack so more often than not the attacker will advance his forces so that they avoid going through the wire. This means wire can be a powerful deterant and are more effective than mines to channel attackers so that their flanks can be exposed.

WIRE in LOS: Place the wire at right angles to where you definitely DO NOT want the enemy attacking from. Since we are discussing defenses with limited points, then you must place the wire within 200m of your defensive strongpoint. The further out you place the wire the easier it is for your attacker to bypass the stuff. Try butting the wire up against FULL WOODS and ROUGH terrain features which increases the probability that your attacker's armour will also not project along this sensitive axis. If possible place AT mines on the immediate flanks of the wire. Attackers are likely to skirt the wire and you might catch a tank doing just that.

WIRE out of LOS: Sometimes you can use wire to significant advantage by placing it out of LOS of your opponents. These are areas in which only when the opponent finally comes within 10's m range will he/she see the wire. Locations such as:

REVERSE SLOPE - excellent location, especially if in OPEN terrain. The attacker crests the hill and now looks down at a line of WIRE stretched before him. You must place HW and infantry IN COVER which have clear LOS to the WIRE and are still shielded by the hillside. This should be preferably within 50-75m.

BACKSIDE OF TREEs - another good location. TREES are natural lines of advance for attackers. If a stretch of trees lead up to your defensive strongpoint and it's flanked by OPEN terrain…you know the attacker is going through the trees. It's a given. You can allow his infantry/armour to advance through the TREES knowing that until they get within 10's m of the WIRE it is invisible. If you place the WIRE so that it is 5 m outside the TREES and in OPEN terrain then the attacker must leave the cover of the woods, advance into the open, and then get hung up in the WIRE. Otherwise he/she must withdraw or move parallel to the WIRE which upsets the attack. If possible, only open fire only after your attacker has decided which he is going to do. You WANT him to attempt to breach the WIRE…of the two possibilities this is the more attractive one. So…setup your ambush marker well away from the WIRE, be patient. If he/she decides to skirt the wire instead, then you can start firing. (this is especially important for ATGs). Feel free to attrite his forces with artillery before he reaches the WIRE though…after all he's coming through there and only has worse cover to choose from if you flush him out. Again…place AT mines on the flanks of the WIRE…it's just good practice.

WALLS: We will assume that the WALL inderdicts the probable line of advance of the enemy, otherwise you probably wouldn't consider emplacing WIRE along it. Now, instead of placing the WIRE on the enemy side of the WALL I put it on the defender's side and as close as possible. Then I place my defenders just outside the WIRE and since the wire is fairly narrow they still gain significant cover from the WALLs. It sounds strange but it has worked to good effect against many of my opponents. You can even bait opponents into assaulting WALLs by placing a skeleton of defenders close to the WIRE with strong defenses 50-75m to the rear under heavy cover. If the enemy assaults the WALL, attrite him on his approach and then fall back to cover. When he/she hops the wall and continues their advance, they are now in OPEN terrain, are immediately hung up in the wire and under the massed firepower of the strong defenders.

WIRE and BUILDINGs: I don't usually build up strongpoints like this "blockhouse" since their construction and ultimate destruction can significantly attrite your defensive points. I also cannot put enough firepower (FP) into a HEAVY BUILDING to justify the expenditure. Instead spreading the units over a arc under cover is in my mind a better expenditure of scare defensive points.

WIRE and HW support: WIRE must be emplaced such that it is under LOS by HW's. I'll repeat that. WIRE must be emplaced such that it is under LOS by HW's. HEAVY WEAPONS are Infantry Guns, Anti-Tank Guns, Machine Guns and Flamethrowers. If the enemy assaults the wire you need to make him pay dearly for the decision. If the enemy decides to skirt the wire you need to have FP available to meet him went he rounds its edge. Sight MGs down the length of the wire if possible. Although MGs are not handled correctly at the 200-400m distances correctly in CM (lack of beaten zone), by AREA TARGETING the far side of the WIRE you can cause significant casualties to all enemy who attempt to cross and get hung up. Never underestimate the power of Flamethrowers either, especially in WIRE. An enemy who gets hung up in the WIRE and is then sprayed with flammables is almost certainly removed from combat for the remainder of the game. Unable to RETREAT because of movement rates he will spend the next 10 turns in a bizarre dance, popping up and then falling to the ground repeatedly. It's especially beautiful when the ground catches fire under the WIRE when troops are hung up in it.

AP MINES: Not my favourite defensive fortification. Since they are invisible until stepped upon they do not serve to effectively channel the enemy where you want them to go. Since they only cause 1-2 casualties, they don't significantly attrite them either. For the 10pts they cost, I would rather get a segment of WIRE.

Distance from strongpoint is a critical factor in deciding where all mines should go. When the enemy is far (200+ m) from your lines you can expect him to be moving fairly rapidly and his chances for tripping the MINES increases dramatically. Most attackers advance in LINE ABREAST (LA) formation where all three squads are in line followed by the platoon leader or in TWO UP ONE BACK (TUOB), where a maneuver squad and platoon leader follows behind two point squads. Either of these formations (with proper spacing) hitting a patch (3-4 AP MINES) will not be delayed very long nor take many casualties if handled by a good opponent. When a squad hits the mines they usually get a bump in MORALE status and freeze, but sometimes make a sharp 90 degree turn. If you have enough MINES for a continuous line this makes his/her casualties mount as they run into the next field. This is why I put AP MINES 75-100m from my lines, I need to take the opportunity for the "freeze" and morale hit to use combined arms and attrite the opponent even farther. AP MINES placed farther out and/or out of LOS for effective FP are usually a waste of scarce points. Closer than 200m and the attacker is also moving a little more deliberately and perhaps maneuvering smaller skirmisher teams forward of his main assault. This allows for the skirmisher to trigger the AP MINES and then the attacker is forced to maneuver around them. The only exception is when I have enough MINES to lay an effective line of them along one flank of the forward slope of a hill. I need my opponent to meet my defensive line at a particular angle for maximum efficiency. I can't cover the forward slope of the hill because of his superiority in tanks/assault guns, so I channel his forces to where I wanted him to attack in the first place. Hopefully his tanks/assault guns will tail behind the infantry and present a flank or rear to my ATGs as well.

AP MINES and REVERSE SLOPE: I usually place the AP MINES just on the defenders side of the slope if possible. I WANT the attacker to crest the hill, advance into the AP MINES, freeze, and then be torn up by my defenders. If you put them on the forward slope or too near the crest the defenders will get 1-2 casualties, uncover the MINES and be forced away from your ambush. Not good.

AP MINES and FORESTS: I usually don't want to deny my enemy from moving inside forested regions until he gets very close to my defensive strong points. This means I rarely place them in FORESTS. The exception is when they border my strong point and then I treat it exactly like a building.

AP MINES and BUILDINGS: AP MINES dotted in front of buildings are especially nasty in villages. Your opponent is going to attempt to leapfrog through town, taking building each in turn while being overwatched by strong units. If you put an AP MINE down in front of the building you are almost guaranteed of a RUNNING squad tripping over the MINES and freezing. Then a flanking defender (or two) can ambush that team and put him into flight fairly rapidly. It just this to happen a few times (say three) before your attacker will almost become hyper-sensitive to the tactic. Getting inside your attacker's head is a good thing. If you can upset his timetable and start him twisting this way and that to avoid you, the battle is half won. This means you can take just a few AP MINES and setup this type of obstacle.

AT MINES: A much better bang for the buck. A reasonable string of 5 AT MINES costs 75 pts which is the approximately cost of the cheapest assault guns in CM (with some exceptions of course). Since vehicles cannot move through WOODS or ROUGH then chokepoints become evident on some maps, chokepoints even many hundreds of meters from your frontlines are usually worth expending a few AT MINES on. Although you maybe cannot cover those chokepoints with ATGs or anti-armour infantry, never underestimate the disheartening effect to your opponent when he/she loses a 200pt tank 600m from your front lines when they know they are safe from ATGs. They will look at the map entirely different from that point onwards and probably fritter away precious turns circumnavigating areas in which they are "sure" you've placed mines. It usually doesn't pay in my experience to place AT MINES directly in front (and never to rear) of WIRE or AP MINES. Infantry precedes armour by 200m or so…WIRE or AP MINES act like infantry repellent and if you channel the infantry away from some location then the armour will likely follow, never to override the AT MINES you so carefully placed. If you are going to use AP and AT MINES in concert, then their usage becomes very terrain dependent. Something obviously far too complex for a simple text discussion on the BTS forum. General rule of thumb though would be to keep them separated by about 200m, closing the gap in direct relation to the LOS distances in the general area. (i.e. LOS = 80m, separation should be about 80m)

AT MINES and the REVERSE SLOPE: AT MINES are best placed well back from the crest on the forward slope of the hill. If your attacker is advancing uphill you will likely see a wise commander mixing in some armour with the infantry. Otherwise when the infantry crests the hill he will be bereft of HE support until his armour far downslope makes its way to the top. You need to strip his armour from the infantry. No armour should be cresting the hill and supporting his infantry advance. Even an immobilized tank out of LOS from the REVERSE SLOPE is useless.

AT MINES and WIRE: See above. Maybe even leave a small gap in the wire but put AT MINES under it. Better yet…don't do it but tell your opponent via email that you probably did. He will avoid the area like the plague just in case.

AT MINES and IMPASSABLE TERRAIN: A great idea. Butted up against ROUGH or WOODED terrain, a heavy building, etc…makes a nice little blockage.

Gawd…that's a bit long winded. Ok enough with the fortifications. I'll move on to SUPPORT weapons next.

Cheers

Murray

[Olle Petersson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

Olle, thanks for that information! {about different terrains}

Have you experimented much with different combination?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not until you asked.

I wrote that based on my mental notes from the QBs I've played.

After reading your question I got home and made a more scientific test, using the random map generator in the editor.

The major deviation from what I thought before is that topography actually has nothing to do with any of the other parametres...

I've now edited my previous post (in this thread), making some corrections and additions.

Cheers

Olle

[L.Tankersley]

Nice post, Claymore. Sound advice there.

[Claymore]

The second installment of defensive basics

3. Support Weapons

This is a pretty mixed bag with certain platforms serving admirable duty against many different target types.

Anti Tank Guns (ATGs) - leaving out the Recoilless weapons until the next installment

When on the defensive the positioning and possible repositioning of ATGs is of as much importance as where your infantry digs their foxholes. Your ATGs serve primarily to attrite one leg of your opponent's triad of combined arms (infantry, armour, artillery) - the armour. You must resist all temptations while the game progresses of using your ATGs as anything other than anti-armour assets (with few exceptions). Your ATG is not primarily an anti-infantry tool. Opening fire on a squad (or at best two squads) and then revealing your position is not a good usage of this asset. ATGs are also useful for channeling or upsetting an attacker's timetable, which is always a good thing. An opponent who must delay his/her attack while calling in some kind of ATG killing asset (usually artillery) or circumnavigate ground covered by your ATG is reacting to your stimuli. The delay incurred can only assist the defender. It's more time for your reinforcements to arrive, more time for your stressed units to recover, more time for your artillery to start falling on his stalled units and of course less time left on the clock for your opponent to achieve his goals. Every ATG should be emplaced such that they have the opportunity to take one good "first shot" during the game…otherwise you've done something wrong or your opponent has outplayed you.

A good rule of thumb is to treat all ATGs like they only have one or two shots in their ammo basket.

PLACEMENT OF ATGs

If possible sight your ATGs to strike against the flank of enemy armour. This means situating the ATG such that its field of fire makes at least a 30 degree angle with the direction of you opponent's attack.

Place your ATGs so that they have a limited field of fire, typically about 30 degrees. That hilltop may look good and you're able to see everything…but the flipside is that everything has a chance to see you and return fire once you start popping off shots. This has a lot to do with CMBOs ABSOLUTE SPOTTING algorithms but the result is that CMBO steers you towards the placement of ATGs as in they were in the historical record.

Place your ATGs in at least SCATTERED TREES…and even then move it back in the grove so that you limit the field of fire. Unfortunately TREES are a force multiplier for artillery rounds so that treebursts will cause more casualties to your crew…but it's a small price to pay for the increased cover you enjoy in the TREES.

Co-locate with your ATGs a platoon leader with bonuses in morale, firepower, and stealth. One of the smaller ATGs with a firepower and stealth bonus might not even require the morale bonus. A one shot kill with such an asset is not uncommon and then if you quickly go back into HIDING mode the chances are you will survive to kill another enemy tank.

ATGs and Prime Movers.

It is a good idea for the budget conscious defender to take 50 pts or so and buy at least one prime mover for your ATGs. No matter how sure you are that your opponent will not advance from a certain direction, the time will come when he does and all your ATGs are out of position. Take advantage especially of the 57mm and 6pdr which have the ability to be repositioned very quickly by jeeps. Since the Kublewagon had a very low horsepower engine this capability was not present for the Germans, who must purchase HTs and Trucks to more their ATGs. In the mud the british have a capable little tracked vehicle in the Universal Carrier.

ATGs and the REVERSE SLOPE

ATGs DO NOT get a HULL DOWN status, therefore they get no size reduction from hiding on the other side of a hill. Even though historically ATGs were dug in so that their barrels were sometimes only 1 foot above ground level, it is not modeled in CMBO. Also, an ATG placed just below the crest of a hill WILL NOT be shielded from the BLAST of counterfire rounds arriving "LOW". In the real world of course the bulk of the hillside shields the ATG from damage but CMBO only calculates the slant distance from the explosion and it matters not if there is an entire mountainside between you and the exploding round. Counterfire arriving "HIGH" however, will sail over the ATG and be ineffective. If you put your ATG at the bottom of the REVERSE SLOPE and attempt to ambush armour cresting the hill be aware that you are paying the penalty of your rounds arriving at an increased angle since you will be shooting UP at the enemy. This might not be critical for a 57mm ATG engaging a StuGIII at 150m, but replace the StuGIII with even a StuGIV and be prepared to possibly see your rounds go ricocheting off into the sky. I generally do not use my ATGs in the REVERSE SLOPE since I try and use the REVERSE SLOPE against infantry (remember infantry always precedes armour!) and I will attempt to strip off my opponents armour well before he/she reaches my infantry.

ATGs and Tungsten Usage

Some of the Allied ATGs may be allotted Tungsten rounds depending on the timeframe of the battle. These rounds are potent tank killers but their usage by the TacAI is thought of by some as capricious and fickle, meaning it never seems to use the stuff when you want it to. This is especially true when you know your expensive 17pdr is only going to get off one or two rounds before being plastered by German counterfire. The real world answer is that due to the fact that first round hits are rare at ranges greater than 500m the TacAI pops off an AP round or two before switching to the more expensive Tungsten. Why don't ATGs start firing T rounds if they have one or more of them? Well, since CMBO only deals with winning the battle at hand and not the war, the logistics and repercussions of Allied tank crews firing T rounds continuously is not modeled. Believe me…if you started firing off Tungsten at every tank during WWII the platoon commander would pay you a visit right damn quick and set your thinking straight.

So the reality is that although there are eight T sitting in the ready ammo basket the TacAI will not switch to Tungsten unless it is sure that:

a. a T round is the only way to kill the enemy tank - positive ID required!

b. it has a very good chance of hitting the tank with the next round

If a Tiger II rolls up at 1.5km you can be pretty sure that the 17pdr will pickle a T round off at him. However, let that Tiger II be identified as a (Tiger ?) and be prepared to see round after round of AP bounce off into the sky until it is positively identified.

We can break up the ATGs then by their optimum engagement distances

88mm Pak43 and Pak43/41 and the 90mm ATG:

Important factors:

1) These fellows are immobile…so where you place them is where they stay at the beginning of the game.

2) Don't even think of having them EMBARKED at the start of the game and then moving them unless you are playing a 50 turn game…it takes too long and they are too visible. Just don't do it.

3) Since their prices are very comparable to a tracked gun the only advantages you get are a slightly lower upgrade to VET status and the "first shot"

4) Engagement distances are at the maximum the CMBO maps will allow, but I would limit the 90mm AA to about 1000m against the hull front of the thicker German tanks.

5) Some of these fellow have a rotation speed of Ethel Merman in molasses…a REG Pak43/41 takes about 50sec to rotate 45 degrees! The Pak 43 is barely adequate at 21 sec but the 90mm AA is a whirling dervish at just 5.5 sec!

I have been hard pressed to think of any game where one of these monsters was worth the cost. If you are defending as the Axis, then the 75mm Pak40 is more than adequate for your needs. Even if your opponent brings Super Pershings to the dance the Pak 40 still has an adequate engagement distance and the possibility of remaining invisible for successive shots. When the Pak41 or Pak43 goes off then on the CMBO map scales everybody knows what's happening and where it's coming from. As the Allies then finding some kind of can opener to use against the thick skinned Jerry tanks is more of an excuse to purchase the 90mm. Be warned however that the 90mm has a silhouette which makes it difficult to hide even in FULL WOODS. The purchase price of ~110 pts means that the defender must take out the equivalent of a PzV (Panther) just to have an "even" trade in the defender vs attacker battle.

German 75mm Pak 40 ATG

Really in a class by itself with an engagement distance against the Allied M4 student body tank corps of over 1.5km. If you can sight one of these fellows to have all of the placement rules I gave above and engage you opponent at greater than 800m you should have no problem bagging at least one enemy tank and seriously putting a crimp in whatever plans your opponent might have. If you engage at long distances then you will not even get to appreciate that this fellow has a respectable rotation speed of about 2 degrees/sec. Should the thicker skinned Jumbos or Pershings be expected, the Pak 40 still is a very potent countermeasure.

17pdr British ATG

Almost as nice as the Pak40 but its larger silhouette makes it tougher to hide. Its rotation speed is horrible, requiring about 35sec to rotate 45 degrees, so you'll want to ensure good standoff engagement ranges. Be aware that the 17pdr suffers some peculiarities from its discarding sabot tank round, which are a little too detailed for this treatise. Just be glad that any nearby infantry will not have to worry about getting wacked in the back of the head by the sabot pieces. Luckily the 17pdr performance in CMBO does not mirror it's poor accuracy in real life, where testing showed it had the highest dispersion of all the Allied ATGs. Even the AP rounds have 150mm penetration out to 1.5km which makes most of the German armour pretty ripe fruit, especially if you can avoid frontal engagements. At a cost of ~110pts it is fairly expensive, but if aren't confident in being able to use the smaller ATGs to good effect it is a must have.

American 76mm ATG

If you are playing the Americans and have any desire to engage Panthers or Tigers with this ATG you are advised to wait until the distances fall. Frontally you have zero hope of puncturing the uparmoured German tanks at long range and must wait until the distance drops to ~300m. If your ATG is situated such that an oblique shot at their flank is possible and you have good cover, then you should have no trouble once the range falls to ~600m. This ATG like the 17pdr has no trouble popping off Tungsten rounds at high value enemy assets like Tigers and JagdPanthers, just as long as they are positively identified. Combine this ATG with a leader with a stealth bonus. Like all its ATG brothers, anything with trailing stabilizer arms are slow to rotate and getting the American 76mm around 45 degrees takes about 27sec.

German 50mm Pak38 ATG

Against the M4 common bodied tank corps the combination of low silhouette, fine AP performance and the possibility of Tungsten rounds in the early war makes this probably the most feared gun in the CMBO arena. On the oblique you want to start your engagement at distances of ~600m against M4 style tanks. If thicker skinned Jumbos, Churchills, etc… are prowling you must have situated you ATGs for 90 degree flank or rear shots at ~300m. Otherwise your chances are near zero for a penetration.

British 6pdr ATG

The Brits outfitted their ATGs with lots of Tungsten ammo throughout the war which makes it potent medicine against the Germans. With a Tungsten penetration of 109mm (@ 30degrees) at 500m, a British 6pdr can open up PzVs at distances where neither they nor their screening infantry can see you. The gun will likely fire off one or more AP rounds until a strike is obtained and then use Tungsten for the kill. I would not attempt frontal shots at Panthers until the ranges drop to ~300m. Unfortunately this typically means the German infantry will be about 100m from your ATG…don't expect to stay alive very long after opening fire in this case. If you are defending and expect the thinner skinned StuGs and PzIVs then you can engage frontally at about 600m and have fairly good chances for success. Costing but ~70 pts (depending upon its experience) the 6pdr can more than pay for itself by dropping a Panther or two from the enemy roster. Another huge bonus for the 6pdr and 57mm is the ability to be rapidly embarked and relocated using Jeeps or Universal Carriers.

American 57mm ATG

Identical in every respect except one to the British 6pdr, no Tungsten! That means this is a last ditch defender against anything with thicker armour than a StuG. Unless you are assured that you can get good flanking shots against tougher German armour, do not purchase this gun. If you have the gun assigned to you because of Autopurchases or a canned scenario, then you must situate the ATG in a flanking position. Putting the ATG so that its field of fire is parallel to the enemy's line of advance is a recipe for losing the gun to the enemy infantry screen. It takes a very gutsy commander and extremely good fire discipline to co-locate defending infantry and ATGs, weather the eventual artillery prep, and then attempt to ambush the advancing infantry + armour. The enemy armour will be lagging at least 200m behind the infantry. When the two infantry forces come into contact then you will likely have no shortage of enemy Mk I eyeballs identifying your location to their armoured bretheren. Miss with the first shot or not penetrate because of non-Tungsten usage and you will likely be pinned and dead before the end of the turn.

That's it for now…next the Recoilless and Infantry Guns!

Cheers

Claymore (nee Murray)

[MrSpkr]

Panzerleader-

Thought I would let you know, I am glad you are putting together a guide. I think defending against the assault is one of the hardest things to do in CM. I look forward to reading it and playtesting its advice.

Steve

[Panzer Leader]

Thanks Mrspkr I have entered a new phase of testing less-common tactics, but the work is progressing smoothly and the information I have gotten from this thread alone is threatening to push my paper past the 10 page mark!

Incidentally, Claymore, I love your breakdown of all the weapons and defenses. You ought to put that stuff together.

Do all the support weapons, AA and MGs and what about Arty?

[FFE]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Claymore:

A wise German (for 2pts name him) once said "He who defends everything, defends nothing". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sun Wu was German?

He authored, SUN-TZU: THE PRINCIPLES OF WARFARE "THE ART OF WAR" around 2,000 years ago!

Chapter VI-

"If he prepares to defend everywhere,

everywhere will be weak."

[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: FFE ]

[Foobar]

Great discussion, guys.

I noticed that NOONE has addressed weather yet in this discussion. As we are alluding to CM2, you might just end up defending in snowy conditions, (which is GREAT fun)

By the time those pathetic attackers hityour first defensive line, they are already winded or tired, and taking fire from unspotted defenders. If they sit still and try to rest, you bring down the arty on them. No rest for the wicked.

Its absolutely beautiful. I am in the middle of a 2000 point defense in snow, day, and so far. Just before this, I attacked in the snow, and got my arse handed to me for the reasons cited above.

I just dont see the point of people saying "The defender always is disadvantaged" when all people seem to play is clear day battles. You have to mix it up some, and find the balance.

Comments?

[Panzer Leader]

Actually, the first section of my article goes into great detail about the affects of weather, time of day, and ground conditions. Here is an excerpt, tee hee:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Each of these parameters affects both sides equally, but many of them will give an edge to one side or the other. The first, and possibly biggest aspect of weather comes from off-map fire. In clear weather, the opponent has a chance to use fighter-bombers, which can quickly find and negate any strong points the defender may have. In a defense, I always like to see bad weather, as it is my experience that the worse it is, the more difficult an assault is for the attacker.

Another aspect of off-map fire is the usage of artillery. Fog, rain, and snow will all reduce visibility, and thus reduce the overall effectiveness of artillery. Especially at night the effectiveness of artillery is greatly reduced, almost to the point of uselessness. For the Allies, this becomes a serious problem since a mortar is a natural part of each platoon. However, night battles also pose a serious threat to the defender since they must be prepared to face a close assault with little warning of the enemy’s advance. Choosing to fight at night is a serious concern for me, and I usually opt for a dawn/dusk battle. Incidentally, this also bears out in reality, where an assault will more often than not fall at dawn. One of the reasons for this is that it gives the attacker a chance to move up his forces into their deployment zones under the concealment of darkness, but this has no consequence in a Combat Mission battle.

Perhaps the most far-reaching effect of the weather is the state of the ground conditions. The goal of any defense is first to slow, and ultimately to stop the enemy's relentless advance. The ground conditions are one of the few non-weapon features of the battle that can seriously hamper the attacker’s chance for victory.

Snow and mud, and to a lesser extent, damp ground, are the three things to look for when defending. Snow will cause vehicles and infantry to move at a sluggish pace, and mud will also slow, and perhaps even immobilize vehicles. For a novice defender, this should be one of the most important parameters to set. Later on, it might be possible to score a victory with even clear sunny skies, but for all practical purposes, this is nearly impossible.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love giving out tidbits like this.

[Claymore]

Part 2b. Support Weapons

Recoilless Weapons

Some might be tempted by the relative cheapness of these weapons platforms but they achieve their small size, good punch and relatively good transport for an atrocious amount of backblast. If there are any enemy units within 400m and in LOS of these fellows when they loose a shot then their position will be pinpointed. They also suffer from a very low muzzle velocity which mean shots over 250m in distance will have poor accuracy…especially the first shot. As most grognards will agree, these platforms were never really in any great usage during WWII and really came into the fore only in the Korean and Vietnam and fell out of favour soon thereafter. So if you are attempting to manufacture a defense that is anywhere close to historical I would suggest you not purchase these assets. If you can't help yourself or are given the beasties in a Auto-purchase QB then the most critical factor is MAKE THE FIRST SHOT COUNT because you probably will not get many more than that.

American 57mm RCL

Near useless. A woeful 370m/s muzzle velocity and only 70mm penetration in return for XXX points, a BLAST = 8 and a telltale funnel of smoke pointing to you when you fire the damndable thing off. If you are saddled with it I can only suggest that you position it for a 90 degree flank shot at some chokepoint, crew it with fanatics and go back to planning what will really work. Maybe you'll be lucky and you opponent will waste more points in artillery fire killing it than it deserves.

German 88mm Puppchen

Used non historically, that is en masse, the Puppchen can be the scourge of your opponent. The round, essentially a Pshrek, will frontally penetrate nearly anything the Allies have to offer and the small shield seems to give them fairly good resilience to small arms suppressive fire. At their optimum engagement distance of 200m it is very common to get first round kills which may allow the platform to go back into hiding if lucky. There are two very good ways to use this:

1. Scatter a half dozen or so in an arc flanking your defensive stronghold. Give them narrow LOS out to about 250-300m and try and cover the possible approaches of your opponents Half-Tracks (HTs) and armour. When your opponents armour comes into engagement range the Puppchen has a very good chance of getting something.

2. Place scattered Puppchen in heavy cover (WOODS) that are not along expected avenues which your opponent will take, but which have LOS back around your chosen defensive strongpoint. Your opponent if not checking all copses of wood carefully can easily overlook these little fellows. Then the Puppchen become fairly good platforms for picking off his armour, which I said before always lags behind his infantry by 200m or so.

German 75mm RCL

Sure its ~80mm of penetration and BLAST=34 is fairly effective, but the to maximize the chance of a first shot kill the optimum engagement range is about 300m. Once the backblast gives your position away the platform has no resistance to small arms fire since there is no shield unlike with the Puppchen. I suggest not purchasing the fellow but if you find yourself with one then placed in heavy cover it may be able to get one of the enemy's tracks…hopefully.

German 105mm RCL

A sometimes nasty piece of work when LOS distances fall to ~300m due to weather. This isn't because of its armour killing prowess but the BLAST=77 which suppresses the hell out of even VET enemy infantry. One or two rounds into an platoon assaulting you position and it will likely be suppressed and go to ground. Then, if the rest of his forces haven't scoped you out you do a number of things like shifting position 25m laterally (to avoid any artillery) or just go back to hiding.

Next...the remaining support weapons like the dreaded PAW, FLAK and MGs!

Cheers

Murray (Claymore)