endit Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 What a game. There is nothing like the feeling of pulling up a sherman for a full rear shot at about 100 yds into the back side of one of those 88's. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Scurlock Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 You got that right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cos Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 Unless your the guy in the Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Deaton Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 Picked off a Panther the other day with a Brit A/C. It was great for about 5 seconds until the second one blew him to the moon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by endit: There is nothing like the feeling of pulling up a sherman for a full rear shot at about 100 yds into the back side of one of those 88's. Enough said.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Except sitting with a Tiger in an excellent position watching the Shermans burn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 Panther, side shot, 50 yds, M8 75mm Howitzer. Opponent was flabbergasted. Panther was trying to keep up with turret rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Schalburg Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 Killed a JagdPanther the other week with a M8 HMC, lucky side shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 Phem game, lone bozooka, 74 meters knocked out a Panther. Hit him in the rear. He didn't even know I was there , well I guess he knew then. God, it was great - well for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 As an ardent Axis player the worst way I remember losing a Tiger IE to a human opponent was by a rear shot by a Sherman 75mm. Didn't know how he got there. For me, though I love those Tiger II/Panthers, I am extremely lucky and seem to care alot more for those old Tiger Is. Here's the situation I usually have with them. Sitting in a defensive position with only 1 Tiger, 1 Pz.Gr.Platoon, 1 75mm assault SPW. I have picked off 5 Shermans soda cans which are all burning quite nicely. Carefully start bringing out the grunts to seek out new targets and kill off surviving crews while the Tiger IE hangs back and slowly follows to provide "moral" support. Quite easy to litter a battle field with soda cans using the Tiger IE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endit Posted April 11, 2001 Author Share Posted April 11, 2001 Well, a tiger picking off shermans is pretty standard, ain't no way that is exciting. Getting a sherman all the way around to the rear of a Tiger without running into his panther or Stug buddies is an accomplishment. Plus I like to see the those tigers being blown to ****. I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 I remember a great day when a a dozen US tanks ran into my ambush of three 88'. Boom [ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Scipio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 I realize this probably isn't correct in real life but I seem to be able to knock out Tigers easier then I do Panthers. I've played dozens and dozens and more dozens of games against the AI and it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Better yet: Tiger wading amongst enemy infantry and AFV units at point blank range. Enemy halftrack slips around to rear of Tiger. Nahverteidigungswaffe triggers. Bomb goes up. Bomb comes down. Bomb drops right inside enemy halftrack. BOOM! I tell you, it was glorious, glorious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by endit: Well, a tiger picking off shermans is pretty standard, ain't no way that is exciting. Getting a sherman all the way around to the rear of a Tiger without running into his panther or Stug buddies is an accomplishment. Plus I like to see the those tigers being blown to ****. I rest my case.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is what I want from my panzers: CONSISTENCY. I seem to succeed more with the Tiger IE than with any other tank. That 88 and the thick side armor plays a role. The flank armor allows the Tiger I/II to be much more forgiving w/ mistakes or to receive a pounding. Like I said, consistently getting results of almost a company of dead soda cans for my lone Tiger IE is what I pay for (points-wise) and get. About the easier time of knocking out the Tiger IE, yes it is much easier knocking out a Tiger IE frontally than the Panther/Tiger IIs. Why? Sloped armor. 'Nuff said. Always wondered what would happen if German engineers somehow got the idea early enough to slope the IE's armor. Keep in mind also that the Tiger IE is old by '44 and was to be replaced by the Koenigstiger while the Panther was assuming the Med.tank role. The 100mm frontal armor at those horrible "slopes" on the Tiger I don't lend themselves well to 76/17pdr/90mm. New Allied players should keep this in mind, but trading shots with any 88's is generally a bad idea. As for German players try this trick from a WWII German manual someone posted months ago: Tiger I unit leaders attacked their targets from a sort of oblique angle. Instead of facing your enemy straight on, turn 15-25 degrees away from the enemy for your approach and use the "hunt" command. What does this do? Somewhat gives a poor man's "slope" to the horrible frontal armor to the Tiger IE. Also, adds it to the flank somewhat. This adds more survivability to those by now old, gray Tigers and I can milk every point (and more) out of this warmaking machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 The "real" Tiger was alot better than CM portrays: a) shatter gap reduced 76mm APCBC to 50 yard penetration ranges against the 100mm frontal armor, see Baily's Faint Praise. published American penetration data for 75mm gun in Sherman is 9% lower, and CM figures are the highest anywhere for 75mm. CM used the high end of the published 75mm penetration figures, even if they did generate the figures themselves with an equation. If American factories known for inconsistent ammo production, it would seem logical to use middle or low end of data. c) British 6 pounder ammo, both AP and APCBC, shattered against Tiger armor when it hit with more penetration than the armor resistance. d) Our upcoming book will show that Tiger armor was equal to American and British penetration test plate in terms of resistance, so American penetration data can be directly compared. e) Tiger mantlet thickness varies from 135mm around gun to 130mm-145mm on flat areas, more than enough to defeat 76mm APCBC hits at point blank. And enough to shatter fail those 90mm hits. f) Due to edge effects, hits on the tapered upper and lower edges of Tiger mantlet, where it is thinner, will be turned up or down, hitting 100mm turret front at an angle. The "real" Tiger looks better against 75mm and 76mm Shermans than it plays in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Interesting contrast. Guess I should read my book harder, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 BTW: is there some minimum range for using the main gun of Panthers? Yesterday I was playing against AI and I saw how a US 4 man platoon leader unit (or something like that) decided to attack my Panther in scattered trees with nothing but pistols and handgrenades. The figure ran to 5 meters from the front of the tank, stopped and threw a couple of hand grenades while my Pather tried to aim low enough, but failed? because it didn't shoot even once. As if the tank crew had been thinking: "What are you doing?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Slow Motion, Yes, tanks will have a minimum range because of limits on the guns depression. Not sure what the exact distance is, nor whether CM models this dynamically according to the tank. The Germans designed the navhertheitegungswaffe (I'm sure I didn't spell it right 'cause I never do) which was a close-range mortar thrower to counter infantry units getting inside the guns depression range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted April 14, 2001 Share Posted April 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra: Better yet: Tiger wading amongst enemy infantry and AFV units at point blank range. Enemy halftrack slips around to rear of Tiger. Nahverteidigungswaffe triggers. Bomb goes up. Bomb comes down... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> BOOM...right on the top of the Wittmann's Tiger. Crew casuality, immobilized and subsequently abandoned. It was glorious, glorious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted April 14, 2001 Share Posted April 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schugger: BOOM...right on the top of the Wittmann's Tiger. Crew casuality, immobilized and subsequently abandoned. It was glorious, glorious <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Umm, don't know about that. If a panzer is close enough to use the Nah-watchamacallit close defense mortar then the it is sure to be buttoned up. Sorry, the Allies are gonna have to try harder to knock it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 When I was in Hamburg on vacation and playing a hotseat game of CM I picked off a Ostwind at 200 metres with a Piat which I earlier kept moaning how bad shots they are. He did have his CO nearby which helped. This game sure does have its surprises RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grunto2 Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rexford: The "real" Tiger was alot better than CM portrays...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> again, comparing to squad leader, the tigers are a disappointment in cmbo. the lack of optics modelling is one of the letdowns. now in that regard, maybe squad leader had it wrong and cmbo gets it right; it just doesn't 'feel' like it. i love the tiger tank, but would never buy one in a quick battle. andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 76mm APCBC should shatter fail against the frontal armor beyond really close range, and 75mm penetration should be about 9% or 10% lower, which increases Tiger survival. Faint Praise shows the Tiger to be a more difficult frontal target for American 76mm gun, 50 yard penetrations against Tiger and 200 yards against Panther is max penetration range. Advanced Squad Leader didn't model shatter gap failure either. The WRG armor rules for 1925-1950 give U.S. 76 APCBC a 300 meter penetration range against Tiger frontal armor, based on combat reports they reviewed. Makes for a different game when Tigers sit at 400 meters and laugh off practically all 76mm non-HVAP hits (although who gets to laugh when HVAP hits the scene). HVAP was developed to counter the heavy armor on Panther and Tiger which 76mm gun couldn't handle. Funny that this wasn't noticed and communicated from the Italian experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 On Ostfront, 85mm rounds would also appear to shatter against Tiger frontal armor. A two front tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 Dangit... my favorite Big Cat has been short changed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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