Croda Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 Those of you who pay attention to my posts (that's about nobody) may recall that I often post stories from my wife's grandfather who served in the 10th AD. Well while visiting this weekend, he told me a new one that I hadn't heard before, and I thought I'd share it. He told me this story from when the 10th AD took Baden-Baden, near the German-French border. Some of you may know better than I do, but he said that Baden-Baden housed a German Officer Training School much like West Point, adn that they also had a large Waterworks nearby, and because of all this, the town was defended pretty well. After the 10th won through, then Sgt. Rouse recalls walking up the steps of a small house to sit in a rocking chair on the porch and rest for a few minutes. After a minute or two, out of the house came a man dressed in civilian clothes who sat down in the other rocker on the porch. The two conversed for close to an hour (the German spoke great English) and they rarely spoke of the war. The only thing Sgt. Rouse remembered that regarded the war was that he claimed he had been at the Battle of the Bulge, to which the German responded "There's no way you were there. You couldn't have gotten out of there." At then end of near an hour's time, a car pulled up and several U.S. soliders (not MPs, but similar though Federal and not Army). The men rushed up on to the porch, took the man into custody, put him in the car and sped away. As they were leaving Sgt. Rouse said to one of the men "What's going on? What did he do?" "Don't you know who that is?" the soldier replied. "I have no idea. We've just been talking here." "That was General Von Rundstedt." (I've been doing a bit of research and it seems that Von Rundstedt was taken at Bad Toelz, where the SS Officer School was. I'll have to check, but obviously Baden-Baden is not correct. I'll straighten the old man out. Wanted to post this before I got eaten alive by grog-monsters). [This message has been edited by Croda (edited 03-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curih Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 A great story, true or not. curih Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 Yeah, I wish my Grandfather was still around. He was a sharpshooter in the army. He did a few beach landings in the Philippians and saw extensive action. He told one story about getting on the wrong landing craft. While ridding in behind the craft he was supposed to be on, he watch it suffer a direct hit from artillery! It’s a shame that before long everyone from that great generation will be gone. We should never forget what great sacrifices they gave so we could enjoy the life we have today. -Head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted March 12, 2001 Author Share Posted March 12, 2001 Gratuitous little bump for the lunch-time crowd. Hope you enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blackthorne Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 Thank you Croda, without the bump I'd have missed that gem. True or not. Lunchtime crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 Thanks for the story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 Aw, I hate to be the one to do this, but... Field Marshall Gerd von Rundstedt surrendered to 2nd Lt. Joseph E. Burke and a ten-man patrol from Company A, 141st Infantry, 36th Infantry Division, on May 1, during the battle for Bad Tolz. Here's a photo of him being led into captivity. He doesn't look very civilian in his full uniform. http://www.kwanah.com/txmilmus/36division/archives/seigfri/images/catch2.jpg [This message has been edited by Forever Babra (edited 03-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted March 12, 2001 Author Share Posted March 12, 2001 Ya, I saw that same link, after I posted the story naturally. That's where I got the Bad Tolz info. I'll call him on it and see what he has to say. There are lots of possible explanations for the inconsistencies, one of which is that the old man was pulling my leg. Either way, for those of us who still like to believe in Santa Claus...I'll check into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 Originally posted by Croda: There are lots of possible explanations for the inconsistencies, one of which is that the old man was pulling my leg. Not necessarily. It has been 56 years after all. Recollections fade. It could have been some other officer. Alternatively, it could have been von R. himself. I don't know the circumstances of his capture -- perhaps Lt. Burke sent someone else to pick him up and your relative happened by in the meantime. There are any number of possibilities. Edited because I can't count. ------------------ "Za Rodentia!" [This message has been edited by Forever Babra (edited 03-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McClaire Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 This sounds like it might be one of those stories that makes the rounds among the soldiers in the US Army. As in, after the men in the original patrol told how they'd captured Von Rundstedt the story was widely retold (and embellished) by anyone who cared to, all of them explaining (tongue in cheek) about how 'they' had captured Von Rundstedt. It is a good story, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted March 12, 2001 Author Share Posted March 12, 2001 Well here's a small test. Lt Burke was with the 141st Inf. at Bad Tolz. Can anyone verify whether or not the 10th AD would have been in that area at the time Von R was captured? We can turn this into a nice exercise in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted March 12, 2001 Share Posted March 12, 2001 Also, what about looking up the Original battle of the story (Baden-Baden) and checking to see what officers were arrested there. What I mean is, is it possible he mixed up the name of the arrested officer? I'd love to check into it myself, but have to run off to Hell... er... Work. ------------------ "Fear is for the enemy... Fear and Bullets." "They didn't want to come... but I told em, by jeepers, it was an order." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted March 13, 2001 Share Posted March 13, 2001 10th Armored was in the general area, but a bit farther west. It cleared Ulm on April 25th. That is 85 miles west north west from Bad Tolz. The 10th then raced southeast, in the right general direction, but it was heading for the Austrian border. It was driving in two columns at this point, and by the end of the war one of them had crossed the Austrian border and reached Imst, on the Inn river in the Tirol. That column probably went through the Fernpass. The other reached Mittlewald, farther east and right on the border, just below the Sharnitz pass. Aimed at Innsbruck it seems. Mittlewald is less than 30 miles from Bad Tolz. And the main road the leftward, eastern column probably took on its push south, passes about 25 miles from the place. They have in common, "near the foot of the Bavarian alps". But I don't think the 10th went through Munich. It is a somewhat unnatural angle to approach Bad Tolz from. But when they got to the foothills, they may have sent a small team northeast to clear the road toward Munich I suppose. All in all, I think I have to arrive at a Scottish verdict - "not proven". The 10th was close enough that someone could have gone there. But not so close that we know anyone did go there. If you grand-papa wasn't actually there, he probably heard about it within a of couple days. Incidentally, someone else having the credit for the capture, can be made to fit his story. The crew in the jeep took the credit and knew who he was, on that showing. Presumably he put on his uniform. But I have a different hunch, that fits the basic area, the 10th's progress, your grand papa's recollection, and my sense of the time. He did "capture" (or meet, or shoot the breeze with) a German officer on a porch. And the guys who came to pick him up did think they had Rundstadt. They were just wrong. It was some other officer. Then your grand papa heard within days of the mystery guy being taken, that Rundstadt had indeed been captured and by a unit he knew was nearby. He put 2 and 2 together and believed what the visitors had told him. Simple. After all, he doesn't claim he knew it was Rundstadt, only that someone told him it was. No reason to suppose that someone knew what he was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted March 13, 2001 Author Share Posted March 13, 2001 Jason, you're take on the story is quite plausible, and was along the lines of what I was thinking when I read about Rundstedt's capture. Being the wire chief for the 10th AD, Sgt. Rouse spent most of his time in very, very forward areas, running wire from the FA Bns to forward OPs. A question for you though: Where did you get all that detail on the 10th's progress? I've been looking for information of that sort of the 10th's trek across Europe. Any leads you can give would be greatly appreciated. As for Munich, you're right. To the best of my knowledge the 10th didn't go through Munich. As for its destination in Bavaria, it is my understanding that they were headed to hold the Brenner Pass against any forces coming up from Italy. Thanks again for any leads on where to find details on the 10th AD. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciks Posted March 13, 2001 Share Posted March 13, 2001 I wonder too, from where this human-encyclopedia also known as Jason Cawley gets his info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted March 13, 2001 Share Posted March 13, 2001 His info comes from his obscene power to make threads REALLY LONG, due to his REALLY LONG username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted March 13, 2001 Share Posted March 13, 2001 Or maybe he has a few history books and a History Channel subscription Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 A boon to thinking man is the world wide web. It is out there, gentlemen. All you have to do is look. Did I know the 10th Armored's route when the man asked the question? No. I knew they had been at Bastogne and a few other things about the division, but I didn't know their route through Germany. It took me less than 20 minutes to find out. Then I looked in an atlas a bit and thought about it for five minutes, and wrote my post. If you have a question and can put it into words, you can usually find the answer. Because somebody somewhere knows the answer, and has usually taken the trouble to make it available, if you will look for it. Go here - http://www.737thtankbattalion.org/Webring/divisions.htm Hit mute, unless you like orgi-borgi music or something. Pick "10th Armored Division". Then you are here - http://www.tigerdivision.com/ At the 10th Armored division's website, which has been visited all of 385 times - Pick "10th AD history and combat chronicle". Then you are here - http://www.tigerdivision.com/chronicle.html The text of the unit's path is over in the grey box at the right. You can look at the towns mentioned in your atlas, if you have one. There is a map on the site, but it is a silly cartoon thingie and not helpful compared to the names of the places past through, with dates, in the text. For more details, you can pick the "books about the 10th AD" link and get some suggested reading. Everything you find that has useful info, will link spaghetti style to a dozen others. 2 or 3 of them will also have useful info. On other WW II history subjects, you can go, among other places, to the following - http://home.swipnet.se/normandy/gerob/gerob.html http://www.feldgrau.com/ http://members.tripod.com/~Sturmvogel/WarEcon.html http://www.siemers.com/ http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/ http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/usarmy/default.htm http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/online/Bookshelves/books3.htm http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/collections/eame-cmps.htm http://www.2ndarmoredhellonwheels.com/ http://www.2ndarmoredhellonwheels.com/links.html http://members.aol.com/super6th/6adpubs.htm http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/8662/home.htm http://www.usarmor-assn.org/links.html http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9517/ Surf's up, gentleman. The water is warm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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