Seahawk-vfa201 Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Time ago me and Lorak set up an experimental cooperative CM, We set up was 3 infantry groups and 1 vehicle/armor group. Each group was assigned to a team member. Each player was giving orders on the CM file and "save" the game instead of hitting GO. The file was then sent to the second team player in line who was then ploting his orders, save and send the file to the 3rd.. and so on. The last player of the Team (always the same one, in our case the one controlling the armor, was then plotting his vehicles moves and this time hit GO. This was finally producing the PBEM to send the other team. The other team was then acting in the same manner. We had great fun from it but after a while some members of the other team pulled out and that was it. I'd like to re-create the team PBEM experience but we need a group of people (4 - 6- 8) depending os team size who are COMMITTED to play and play rapidly, that is same day they receive the turn preferably and give precedence to the Team-CO over other PBEM he/she might have. Anyone interested? Hauptmann Lorak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 I am VERY interested! I would love to do this, and would prefer to be the germans. I also have a very understanding wife who allows me to "process turns" (it sounds better than "play my game") when files come in, so I could definitely ship out orders at least once a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk-vfa201 Posted March 15, 2001 Author Share Posted March 15, 2001 OK, we are two. I;d say a minimum of 4 players (2 players each team and we are set). I'd like to keep vehicles/armor as a single group as this way one could concentrate more on either infantry issues or armor issues. Let me add to your and other CMers benefit that it requires some team action and deciding a common plan. Situations also could evolve and having one Captain/Hauptmann asking for help. Usually in 1 to 1 CM PBEM this is easy: if you see an area under trouble you might decide to go and help. In this case your request for help might be unanswered as your peers might judge they can't dievrt troops to help you out. So it all adds to the S*it Happens in war and the reply is " Do what you can: you're on your own. My habds are full now" I think it really adds to CM experience. I once asked if BTS could add this feature (players registering different passwords and CM allowing every player to only plot orders to own units, as well as visibility/knowledge of the terrain/enemy only available from your own units (if not in radio range with the other groups) But the effort I guess was too high although it would make CM astonishing. Well, more astonishing than it is right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 If we can work around my schedule (Usually about 3PM to 11PM CST) I would love to be in this since one campaign I was in was stillborn, and another is taking a long hiatus. ------------------ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk-vfa201 Posted March 15, 2001 Author Share Posted March 15, 2001 If we all are commitetd to it we might even have two turns per week. We had that at the beginning, sometimes one team sending the turn back to th other team in less than 48 hours. Then things slowed down in part due to unexperienced players not really THAT addicted to CM. So, I hope everyone to participate BE addicted to CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk-vfa201 Posted March 15, 2001 Author Share Posted March 15, 2001 Forgot to add: My aim is to historical settings, maybe even a scenario - how complex it could be - where teams would receive their goal primarily from the briefings and team would then try to accomplish those goals setting up a plan accordingly. If not we could use a Fionn rule (just a suggestion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Yes, the cooperative aspect sounds very interesting, email sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Sounds very interesting Seahawk. However, I have the following issues: 1. How can the other member of the same team see the movie? 2. If the latter member of the team messed up the plots of the first member, is there a mechanism to avoid it? It could easily happend if there is no definite "phase line" between the two. 3. I think member dropping out is not a big problem so long as the other members are willing to "take up the job". It may sound a little unfair to the team with less member, just like playing soccer ball. 4. If the game is a QB, how do players pick the troops? Shopped by compter? 5. Would there be a moderator/coordinator/refree? Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Come to my Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciks Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 I am very interested in this, Seahawk! My e-mail adress is in User Profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciks Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Just came into my mind If there was, lets say, three battle groups (each controlled by one player) and one Arty spotter. Who will decide how to use the valuable shells? [This message has been edited by ciks (edited 03-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Sounds great. If it goes, count me in. ------------------ shadow@jagdtiger.de Canada For CM I AM CANADIAN! Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 This reminds me of Sid Meier's Gettysburg TCP/IP play. During which more than one person could control a brigade and some artillery. His buddy could do the same with maybe 2 brigades. The end result would be 2 people working as a team to crush the 2 or 3 people playing the other side. This could grow to 4 against 4 I believe. It was a lot of fun and I’m sure you guys will have the same! Cheers, -Head ------------------ "I don't need my junkie friends all knockin' at my door. I just wanna do an old time waltz with a buxom Irish whore!" -Shane MacGowan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huron Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Hello there, E-mail sent. I've been away from PBEMing a bit, but a team/cooperative game sounds like great fun. Huron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 I almost got into one of these via the GROGNARDS wargame club, but the whole thing crapped out. Since then I've been really wanting to give it a go. If this one fills up, perhaps some of us leftovers could start up a second MP game? I'd prefer to play Allies. I could process my turns any weekday... sometimes ify on weekends. The TUTORIAL scenario may be a good one to test this process with... ------------------ "Fear is for the enemy... Fear and Bullets." "They didn't want to come... but I told em, by jeepers, it was an order." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrano Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Yes, but in SMG BATTERIES couldn't be assigned permanently to one command or another. I once spent an entire QB cyber-slapping the hand of some guy in Georgia who kept trying to swipe the guns I had been assigned by the CO...of course he was always trying to take them JUST as I was pushing for the next objective. Lesson: come up with rules for this in co-op CM lest it become all too tempting to keep that spotter for your very own. ------------------ "Watching others make friends, as a dog makes friends. I mark the manner of these canine courtesies and say, 'Thank God, here comes another enemy'" -- Rostand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Seahawk, If you need a warm body you can count me in. My life barely exists so I'll be around... let me know jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Count me in. It will be a nice change of pace from being "god" in the Team Rumble. I'm better with armor than infantry. Maybe having more than 1 armor commander per side might work (platoon/troop level)? Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Seahawk, count me in. I just got your email and I agree with all your points. I don't care if I fight for the Germans or Allies .... Just don't make me a tank driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Okay people, just when I though CM forum is getting quiet and boring, I am glad to see that the board is getting lively again. However, first off, I have no interested in joining the game right now. Also, it seems not no one has yet to address my issues posted. So please stop sending me e-mail about the game. I still read the thread and it is okay for me right now. Thank you very much. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Come to my Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Shouldnt the armor guy move first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 As I was one of the ones that was part of the first one. I'll see If I can answer some of these questions. Originally posted by GriffinCheng+: Sounds very interesting Seahawk. However, I have the following issues: 1. How can the other member of the same team see the movie? When a movie file is created the following happens. Plain movie file. Person recieving the file forwards it to the rest of his teammates, He also hits done and sends the file back to the other team. Movie and turn file. Person recieving the file forwards it to his teammates as before,they watch the movie and then discard. Then he plots his orders and send the new turn for the others to plot thiers. 2. If the latter member of the team messed up the plots of the first member, is there a mechanism to avoid it? It could easily happend if there is no definite "phase line" between the two. Easy way to avoid this is to always keep "show all movmment lines" on. That way it is easy to see what units have orders. Also you are usually given a companie ect.. not that hard keeping up with your guys. 3. I think member dropping out is not a big problem so long as the other members are willing to "take up the job". It may sound a little unfair to the team with less member, just like playing soccer ball. Actualy the team with less members will in all likely hood have an advantage. Less problems and confusion in communication. 4. If the game is a QB, how do players pick the troops? Shopped by compter? We picked our own troops in the first battle. Just communicate with your teamates on what units they would like to play, and then come to an agreement that is believable/historical. 5. Would there be a moderator/coordinator/refree? Not as such. Pretty much the two team leaders act as those roles. Griffin. Like Seahawk has said before. The mechanics are not that difficult. But communication and commtment are. Our first experiment ended bad. But not because the system didn't work. Truth is that Seahawks team was kicking my teams ass. Then we ran into some communication problems and some other issues. By the time things were worked out, intrest was gone and it wasn't worth finishing. But I totally support the process and the mechanics. Was a lot of fun, and I'm sure it will be for those that sign on. As for mechanics... a brief run down. axis1 recieves file, plots moves, saves game, sends to axis2 axis2 same as above, then hits go, creates the turn that he mails to allied1. allied1 recieves file, plots, saves, sends to allied2. allied2 same as above, hits done, creates file and sends to axis1 axis1 recieves movie file, fowards to axis2(so he can watch), then hits done and sends turn to allied1. allied1 recieves movie/turn file. He forwards this file to allied2(so he can see movie,then allied 2 discards file). He then plots his moves and saves game. sends to allied2 allied2 recieves file, plots, creates turn and sends to axis1. Thats the bulk of it. Sounds confusing, but it really isn't. But you need the players to check in and let the other know when they recieve thier file so if it gets lost you know where. Just a little e-mail like. Seahawk, recived file from dave, have plotted and sent the file on to Tom. If any other questions I'd be happy to try an answer them. Lorak ------------------ "Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking."--William Butler Yeats Cesspool Combatmissionclub and for Kitty's sake =^..^= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Lorak, Most issues covered but 2. If the latter member of the team messed up the plots of the first member, is there a mechanism to avoid it? It could easily happend if there is no definite "phase line" between the two. Easy way to avoid this is to always keep "show all movmment lines" on. That way it is easy to see what units have orders. Also you are usually given a companie ect.. not that hard keeping up with your guys. Well, if you think deeper, there is simply no way to prevent moves from being changed, accidentally or deliberately. Let's say when a team has 2 members, member Alice sends her file to member Bob. There is not way to crosscheck if the moves made by Alice are the same ones send to the opposing team. Let imagine this case: a FO is targeting an area which helps Alice and when Bob wants the assets instead, Bob, receivng the move file after Alice, can change (or rip if you want to use the word) the targeting order without acknowledging Alice. This is raised to avoid unnecssary arguments and possible cheats. This is likely when the team gets large and the game is complex (i.e. a lot of fire and movements). I suggest you really need a refree or coordinator which handles ALL the file traffic and keeps all the file exchanges as a proof so such arguments can be minimized. Disclaminer: though I have NO interests in joining your game for the time being, cause I am quite busy. I wish to see such kind of game being play in a fair and fun. Good hunting people. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Come to my Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Call me a dunce, but you are talking about saving the game using alt-S yes? I've been sitting here for five minutes figuring out how you save teh game without hitting GO. Interesting concept. If you ever run this idea again in the future, I would be interested. My plate is full right now and I have probably missed this go-round from the looks of it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Yes that is a possible problem. We designated a team leader to control the shared elements of the group. That way players would request from the team leader artillery support ect.. Then the team leader would decide who got it and why. The team leader is also the designated file sender. That way he can look at the map and make sure no funny business is going on. But if someone kept screwing up and it was on purpose, Team leader should just look for a replacment. Lorak ------------------ "Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking."--William Butler Yeats Cesspool Combatmissionclub and for Kitty's sake =^..^= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 That would be good, Lorak. But I suppose if you make a game too large, there would be very steep for low-end computers to run. Bear in mind cause I can't help but imaging how grand it could be when I see hundreds of men and tens of tanks rumbling acrossing the field which shells of all calibres falling in front of them as fire curtains. Impressive! May be later. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Come to my Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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