John Kettler Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Those pushing elsewhere for a properly modeled 25 pdr., plus Morris Quad and ancillary items, take heart! I present you with an example of 25 pdrs. firing over open sights. It's taken from the battle of Villers Bocage and is reported in OVERLORD: D-Day & The Battle for Normandy, by Max Hastings as part of the war memories of Trooper Dennis Huett of the 5th RTR. On page 208 of OVERLORD it says: "Scout cars radioed that enemy tanks were approaching 'and stuff started flying about.' They once traversed their turret violently to meet an incoming tank, only to discover just in time that it was one of their own. A nearby battery of 25-pounders was firing over open sights." Armed with this information, the historians and grogs here ought to be able to figure out which RA unit was so hard pressed that it switched to direct fire. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 I still think that was in 7th AD after Villers-Bocage, and it is probably the only example in the campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: I still think that was in 7th AD after Villers-Bocage, and it is probably the only example in the campaign <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You realise that the abbreviation "AD" in British nomenclature denotes "Air-Defence", don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 25pdr Air Defence Artillery. Now that could be fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barticus Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 I know the 25-pounder had provisions for use as an AT weapon. IIRC, a unit of British 25 pounders won a unit citation of some kind or other earlier in the war (France 1940?) for providing indirect artillery support in-between German attempts to over-run their position with armour. I have the book at home and will try to find the exact reference. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian: You realise that the abbreviation "AD" in British nomenclature denotes "Air-Defence", don't you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> C'mon Brian, now don't get him wound up. We all know what that will lead to. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian: You realise that the abbreviation "AD" in British nomenclature denotes "Air-Defence", don't you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You realize that Air Defence is a modern term, don't you? (We use it here in Canada as well). In WW II, air defence was still "Ack Ack" was it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: In WW II, air defence was still "Ack Ack" was it not?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What does a cat coughing up a hairball have to do with air defense? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Wasn't Ack the British phonetic equivalent of today's NATO phonetic Alpha? Which would imply AA, not AD. The modern CW acronym is ADA, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BirdGunner Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Being a Long time Air Defender in the Canadian Forces, the following abbreviations stand as: AA = Anti Aircraft(Ack Ack) AD = Air Defence ADA = Air Defence Artillery (US) AAD = Airfield Air Defence And yes AD did exist during the WWII, but because during the end of the war, the Allies had Air Superiorty alot of the Air Defence Units were turned into Anti-Tank units. At least that is what happened in the Canadian Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stixx: 25pdr Air Defence Artillery. Now that could be fun <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You know a thing or two about 25 lbrs in direct fire mode, Stixx. (iirc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian: You realise that the abbreviation "AD" in British nomenclature denotes "Air-Defence", don't you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You realise that unlike someone who is clearly out to troll, I don't waste time writing this stuff out, don't you? Stop being a tosser, if you don't have anything to contribute, just bugger off (is that English-English enough for you to understand?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BirdGunner: Being a Long time Air Defender in the Canadian Forces, the following abbreviations stand as: AA = Anti Aircraft(Ack Ack) AD = Air Defence ADA = Air Defence Artillery (US) AAD = Airfield Air Defence And yes AD did exist during the WWII, but because during the end of the war, the Allies had Air Superiorty alot of the Air Defence Units were turned into Anti-Tank units. At least that is what happened in the Canadian Army.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't see the term in BATTERY FLASHES by Falconer; is there a source I am not checking with regards to the WW II usage of "AD"? Ack was the phonetic for A in WW I, and carried on until the middle of WW II, when the phonetic alphabet changed to the American Able, Baker, Charlie, etc. "Ack Ack" formation is still used by infantry on the march, incidentally - three sections spread out alternately on the road so an aircraft cannot wipe out an entire platoon. When I did my basic years ago, it was still referred to as Ack Ack Formation, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish: What does a cat coughing up a hairball have to do with air defense? :confused:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You misspelled 'hair defense'. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 Interesting that you should have a specific name for that; is there any other form of movement for infantry on the march? Does the infantry actually march in file on exercises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Triumvir: Interesting that you should have a specific name for that; is there any other form of movement for infantry on the march? Does the infantry actually march in file on exercises?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ON roads and in rear areas they march in file, naturally. There is also Arrowhead formation, etc. We also learn all kinds of neat stuff like the "leopard crawl" during fieldcraft training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward_n_kelly Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I don't see the term in BATTERY FLASHES by Falconer; is there a source I am not checking with regards to the WW II usage of "AD"? Ack was the phonetic for A in WW I, and carried on until the middle of WW II, when the phonetic alphabet changed to the American Able, Baker, Charlie, etc. "Ack Ack" formation is still used by infantry on the march, incidentally - three sections spread out alternately on the road so an aircraft cannot wipe out an entire platoon. When I did my basic years ago, it was still referred to as Ack Ack Formation, also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And in WWI a similar formation was called "artillery formation" used when moving up to the FEBA (to use a modern term) but within the range of artillery (generally medium or field - if you get hit by the bigger stuff......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 No more leopard crawls for me, thank you very much! It's refreshing to know that the Commonwealth at large still keeps much of their military terminology in common, even if it does bring back shuddery flashbacks of sadist training camp lieutenants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted October 17, 2001 Share Posted October 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by edward_n_kelly: ... FEBA (to use a modern term)... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are we sure we wont to use FEBA, my lexicon of Commonwealth terminology does not contain this term, making it verboten to use in polite company on the Internet. [ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Slapdragon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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