I've won so few games I'm getting discouraged

[Redwolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Your ATG presense should be significant. You should focus all your efforts on eliminating his AFV's as soon as possible.

Your goal is to strip the enemy infantry from their AFV's. In a greater scale this would be done through artillery striping. On a smaller scale, you just need to eliminate the enemy tanks -- it's that simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I otherwise liked your post, but here I disagree.

If we are talking tank against tank, depending on your tank types, you should not neccessarily go for the early tank battle. If you have a Sherman against a Panther or a Pz IV against a Churchill, you should instead use your tank to destroy enemy infantry and heavy weapons, avoiding the tank. Somewhere I hade a longer posting about that, let me know if someone wants a pointer.

If we are talking towed guns, I am sceptical that a new player can handle guns well, both for placement and for using, which means when to open fire. Laying out a meaningful defense is one of the more difficult tasks and early errors are much harder to correct. Granted, sooner or later you must learn it, but as long as you loose totally, you do not learn much and must shift to things that give you a better learning feedback.

I'll post some recommendations later.

[Redwolf]

The fact that you are loosing 100:0 says one thing: you did not cause any significant losses to the opponent. That in turn implies that you don't understand CMBO's point system and concentrate on the flags too much. If losses are high in a CMBO game, the flags do not matter much. It is useless to capture the flags while taking heavy losses.

So, the first thing you probably need is a change of mind towards: strike for damage.

If the opponent knows that you are a (for now) weak player, he will try to get a major or total victory. He can forget about that if he takes own losses. No matter how badly he beats you up and forces you into surrender, he will never get the points for the losses back.

One way to get started:

Let him take the flags. Do reconnaissance. Identify an isolated group of his units, usually you will find such around small flags in games with several flags. Concentrate all your infantry to attack this group, except a few half-squads still for recon. Place all your AT-capable units, especially tanks, to view over the approach path from the main part of his force, you will usually find some canal with open ground. Have an artillery FO already locked onto the path with smoke, but not on the field of fire of your ambushers, but besides it towards the enemy main force.

Basically liek this ("I" is your infantry):

<pre>

I

I small_enemy open ground smoke big_enemy

I

I... tanks FO </pre>

[stupid forum software ****s up layout, how do I use "pre" here?]

Then, supress the isolated group with mortars for one turn. They are much better than MGs, especially when the opponent is in trees, which is often the case for minor flags. Should be bigger than 2 inch, though. Time your artillery so that the smoke rounds fall in this turn, so that smoke will be there next turn.

In the second turn, attack the small enemy group. You should be able to gain a 2.5 or more superiority in infantry.

Depending on how paranoid your opponent is and how clever he assumes you are, he will start reinforcements from the main force either now or he already did it after the supressing turn because he knew what was coming. If he underestimates you, he will have the late option and will drive through the smoke into so heavy losses and the attack is broken. If not, your infantry that attacked his small force will take a beating, as are the ambushers. However, they do so after having striked themself, that is much preferrable over getting decimated without point gains.

[ 04-28-2001: Message edited by: Martin Cracauer ]

[Goanna]

How bout this for a suggestion Hiram - play decent players and finish your games.

We started one before you went on your latest employment search but then you had to drop out. If you want to continue, I am ready at any time and have the file saved. All the guys I play in the Cesspool always finsih games and winning or losing you always learn something from them. When I started playing in '99 on the demo I could always beat bauhaus and Moriarty and would lose the majority of the time to Berlichtingen. But we always talk about what worked and didn't from all angles and I can't guarantee a win against the first two any more and the third can't necessarily beat me on any given day.

The difference was probably that Berlichtingen were both in the armed forces and had some idea of what we wanted to do with the various units early on. But also key was that bauhaus and Moriarty never gave up and are smart guys, like you. How do I know that? Because you are all poolers and you can't be a smartass without being smart first.

So, don't quit, keep talking to the other players, play your equals or betters and learn what works and what doesn't. If you want to continue with me I can tell you several things that you can expect to see from Peng routinely and I can teach you what Elvis doesn't know about arty that will hurt him.

[ 04-28-2001: Message edited by: Goanna ]

[deanco]

At any rate, Hiram, I just about fell outta my chair laughing when I read the thread topic. That's worth at least 15 Victory Points right there, IMO.

[Phillies Phan]

Thanks for the advice folks. I acknowledged a long time ago that I've only been given two braincells to rub together, so this game would be hard for me. I've found that if I play more than a 1000 PT ME, then I forget some of my bodily functions. I enjoy it even though I lose so often and thoroughly.

thanks again.

don't think i hate all of you any less though.

[Lorak]

LMAO Phan,

You've got a good sense of humor. Thats why I like you. (out of the pool I can say that)

Besides I think you just got a bad draw in that game from what I have read by Elvis.

Oh and a warning. If you play Goanna aka Lizard king. Be on the look out.

He is gamey and airdrops his men onto the VL's. Then he has the audacity to use the HIDE command ! What kind of commander is that?

Lorak the loathed

[Redwolf]

Matters of taste, I guess. Initiative doesn't buy you anything when you loose all AFVs early.

I found that avoiding the tank battle works quite well, especially for the tank combinations I listed. Some more circumstances:

- To do this, you need "spotting superiority", you must know where enemy tanks are

- Especially in ME, my opponents' tanks usually fall sooner or later from assassination by flanking infantry AT teams, 3" mortars they couldn't even see and similar toys that make the trade much more attractive than the tank duel. Of course, some of them know that and are very careful with their tanks, thus giving me enough room to use my tanks on their infantry. As I said, it works reasonable well

I probably don't care about initiative very much, as I don't think I have good enough coordination for a head-on battle.

It's funny that you mention that my tactics include the risk that my armour is driven into map edges. In fact, that is what happend to me lately, with said Pz IV and two Churchills. They cornered me in a perfect formation like dancers and when the last slope was crossed, my Pz IV was gone. However, at that time the Mk IV had fired all its HE shells and most of its MG ammunition on infantry that was on the run on open ground (I was defender), while the Churchills didn't even touch my infantry and it was 2 turns before the game end. I won this game although I made many mistakes and the enemy force was overall very dangerous (Jason Cawley's suggestion of Glider company, 3" mortars and Churchills against Pz IV with Rifle company).

Maybe the point here is that there was no way to get the initiative as I understand it for these force combinations. And Phillies is probably in a similar position.

As I said, initiative doesn't buy you much if you loose your tanks while not knocking out the enemies'. Even with 1:1 chances I don't like that -have some bad luck and you are in a very difficult position. I prefer the systematic exploration of lowest-risk/highest-prey situation.

I still think that towed guns are not what a beginner should learn first. You move a tank often and learn something new each turn. You place the gun once and then decide when it's time to open fire. That is not much to learn from 30 turns.

Also I don't think you can identify goood anti-tank gun positions unless you understand tank movement.

Complexity needs to be lowered, concentrate on few flexible units first, then add the exotic stuff. Infantry squads and tanks first, then tank hunters, MGs and mortars, then towed guns and APCs.

I don't know what to answer on the last paragraph. I find total losses quite useless for learning, you cannot identify or rate reasons for the loss, it's just a big mess.

Talking to your opponent is definitivly a good idea, though. I also have unique passwords for each PBEM, in case the opponents wants my turns.

[Mark IV]

Hiram!

Stop teasing the grogs and fire up your TCP/IP-o-matic... I'm a-lookin' for ya. It's 3:30 Pacific and let's talk about that draw, ya lamer.

[Foobar]

Hiram, I think this would be a perfect parallel thread to Kiwi Joe's now famous challenge thread.. Play as many people here as possible until you win one!!

Good luck brother, dont lose heart!

[Redwolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adam Lloyd:

Initiative is such a flimsy word I think, used to mean different things by different people.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly my problem with the word, hence I don't use it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Let's instead say the important aspect of tank warfare is choosing the fight. As you say, "the systematic exploration of lowest-risk/highest-prey situation." Now the only way you can do that, is if you have relative freedom and you aren't constantly reacting to enemy moves. Like chess, if the enemy can force you to react to his moves, he can also predict and force situations that are to his advantage.

Is it possible with the forces you describe to maintain the freedom to maintain relative systematic exploration of lowest-risk/highest-prey situations? Absolutely.

You have two Churchills and a Rifle Company, plus the 3 inch mortars. He has a Rifle Company and one PZIV.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got that backwards, I had the Pz IV, he had the Churchills.

There is no way the Pz IVs can take on the Churchills, and the primary reason is not the 150-mm front armour, but the fast turret. You cannot relibably flank them without getting toasted, especially not with the IVJ. Additionally, showing your Pz IV in reach of the slower advancing force (I was on defense) would open them to 3" mortar fire, which is very dangerous for them.

But they are slow enough (both the Churchills and the mortars) that by avoiding them you still have enough breathing room. Especially if you get infantry AT teams in his back, so that he cannot move the tanks freely. Don't commit the teams, just show up from time to time and run like hell from his infantry.

The rest of your posting is what I would do as well on the attack. In ME and on the defense you will usually get the enemy tank positions with low recon effort. The reaction with usually depend on the kind of tanks and the deployment, but very often I will turn my tanks against some platoon on the flanks or even heavy weapons following in the rear before tangling with his tanks.

The opponents usage of tanks is of course very important here. When a competent opponents is moving his force like a cloud of infantry around a compact tank platoon, I will not go for single attacks, but need one overall plan. Many people, even when buying many tanks tend not to use them as platoons. Then I will go for the isolated tanks first.

In small Quickbattles, however, you meet lots of single or at most pairs of high-value tanks with SP arty in support (often small stuff like M8 hmc or 75mm halftracks). I still think it is not a good idea to go after the high-value tank first, even more so since the chance of a high-value tank falling to my infantry AT teams or other non-tank units is not much worse than for any other tank.

[PawBroon]

That one needs a BUMP.

In my quest to save Hiram from Himself I had him hooked on ICQ and I diagnosed the following:

Most people ask Hiram to play canned scenarios Double Blind.

No Hiram Double Blind NEVER meant you had to shut BOTH eyes!

I'm glad I helped.

Other than that the best piece of advice had been given above.

Play us fellow Poolers and ask for a debrief afterwards.

That's all.

Should you need a game, shoot one my way.

[MrSpkr]

Phillies-

Given my run of luck in two recent PBEM's, you probably stand a good shot here. Send me a QB setup - either side, say 1500-2000 pts, daytime.

MrSpkr

[88]

Keep some of the basics in mind.

1. overwhelming firepower - hit them from multiple angles and keep hitting them until they are done. It only takes one guy to get back up and man that machine gun again.

2. team play - many of the other games out there promote using units individually (mechwarrior style). Use your units as one BIG unit. The sub-units complement each other well.

3. Take your time - even 25 turns can be a long time. Dont grunt rush the other guy.

4. Avoid the C&C mentality - Picture your troops as real people, not as units you can build more of. I know it sounds simple, but it will affect how you use them.

5. The devil is in the details - hit the enter key on your units. Are you using conscripts for close assaults? Are you trying to suppress that squad on the next hill with troops armed with SMGs?

6. Command and control - Use it.

7. Losses Do Occur - Not to discount my point further above, but you cant save all of your troops, which is a noble and tempting goal. Some will be necessarily lost for the 'greater good'.

8. Have fun - It is only a game. Try new things, try off-the-wall things, but have fun.

[Bruno Weiss]

Good comments 88, especially #4. At some point, I began to see them that way and my play improved quite a bit. I also notice that when I get careless and lose that mentality of seeing them as real people, my level of play also slips.

[Seanachai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by R_Leet:

Chin up, ol' chap. Stiff upper lip, wot?

All kidding aside (yeah, right) you are now a legend in the cess. Ought to help you make squire that much sooner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Phillies Phan, once charmingly known as Hiram Sedai, is already a Knight of the Cesspool. He was not so raised out of pity. At least, I don't think it was pity. But you are correct, he is a legend within the Cess.

[Pak40]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phillies Phan:

Thanks for the sympathy and empathy, gentlemen. The sad thing is that I've played this game since August of last year. So, I'm not a rookie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't matter whether you're a rookie or not. Just TELL you opponents that you're a rookie and they'll pity you and let you have more points.

[Phillies Phan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pak40:

It doesn't matter whether you're a rookie or not. Just TELL you opponents that you're a rookie and they'll pity you and let you have more points.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They pity me anyway, but not because of the game. I won't alter the points though.