How the Hell do you defend against massive arty? Must read!

[CombatGeneral]

I am playing a guy PBEM and I set up all my units expertly, I cant say how, or what, we havnt even done the first turn yet. However, when planning a defense do you guys (the expert players) plan for everything. A flank attack, tank rush, infantry rush and heavy arty? Do you defend the whole map? Let me know some of your deepest secrets, and I will let you know some of mine. Lets get a good defense chat going here. Besides spreading out your infantry, there is nothing you can do to stop a 240mm with an 81mm mortar barrage. Ouch, that hursts just to type it. Arty should be more expensive, as it is the king of the battlefield.

[The Commissar]

Actually, if anything, arty should be less expensive because it wasn't the king of the battlefield for nothing - there was more of it present (especially before the battle even began) then CM lets on.

In any case...

The best way to protect yourself against heavy arty attacks is to trick your opponent into using it too quickly. This is an artform in and of itself. One must use as few forces as possible that you can afford to lose, and still have these forces be sufficient enough to beat back any enemy infantry/armor attack. As I said, the trick is to make your opponent think that you have more men in a given area then there really are. Because heavy arty takes a long time to summon and has a small ammount of rounds, players will be reluctant to use it on anything but a large formation of enemy troops.

Beware - smart players start targeting their arty spotters in the first turn of the game on locations they think the fighting will develop in. This allows them to have a smaller delay if their prediction comes true, and if not, allows them to move the arty spotter's targeting recticle around the battlefield without as much penalty.

As a rule of thumb, spreading out your troops is a good idea if you are certain there can be no enemy contact in the area besides arty. Do not do this unless you are not certain there can be no contact. I sometimes throw a few round of arty at an enemy position to scare my opponent into spreading out, and then cancel the barrage and charge my men in.

As for looking out for eveyrthing like flanks and such...one simply answer is to keep a reserve platoon (or company, depending on map size) somewhere behund the middle of your battle line. This way, it can get to either side relatively quickly or shift the balance of strenght in your favour in most engagements.

[Soddball]

Will you promise to tell us how the battle is going? I would really love to learn from an expert like you!

[CombatGeneral]

your a good guy soddball, you ass. I will be more then happy to post the results of my first battle, whether I win or lose. Now if you were even a half whit you would realize arrogance is a form of uncertainanty. Am I really as good as I say I am? Who knows, maybe or maybe soddball your a little afraid to play me. Anyways bud, keep it coming, I could use the encouragement now.

[CombatGeneral]

Has anyone here been totaly wiped out by an artillary barrage? Has your front line ever crumbled so badly that you were ruined? Share some of your arty stories with me, I would appreciate that. Nothing scares me more then a madman with a lot of arty.

[Soddball]

Nice theory, shame about the spelling. Well, I wish you luck but I think you'll find that playing people is rather different when compared to playing against the computer. Glad to see you can spot irony though - I think there may be a slot for you in our forum after all

PS - A little tip: This isn't the place for pointless pomposity. If you want to bellow and beat your chest about how great you are whilst not having to prove it at all, head for the Peng threads.

Oh, and I would love to play you, once I've finished a couple of games. My life bleats when it gets absorbed by CM.

[Redwolf]

[Double post]

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ]</p>

[Redwolf]

For defense, please check out thread 019176. It is generally a good idea to check for existing discussions. Not so much for the existense of a new thread, but for quality: topics that are discussed too often tend to have a lower quality due to old-timers loosing interest.

The more appropriate tactics forum also has a number of threads on defense.

As for artillery, if you have a Hummel, shoot at some nice forward-slope or high-hill woods or high buildings. More often than not the barrage suddenly stops, how strange. If not, at least you had a nice fireworks.

Also neat is to smoke an artillery spotter's LOS, as in that case the rounds will fall as in the non-spotted wide pattern. This may cause the rounds to fall on his own troops if you are near enough. Getting the enemy to knock his own units out is one of the highest arts of CMBO. I am sure you can win a battle without expending any of your ammo (besides smoke), remember that victory point calculation is based on ammo still carried by intact units at the end of the battle.

[Cos]

Take it you figured out the pbem thing then CG.

[MrSpkr]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Soddball:

A little tip: This isn't the place for pointless pomposity. If you want to bellow and beat your chest about how great you are whilst not having to prove it at all, head for the Peng threads.<hr></blockquote>

OH NO YOU DON'T! Send him to the Antithicess Thread or somfink; we don't want him!

[Soddball]

In one of my current PBEM's my opponent has bought some 170mm (I think) artillery spotters. He dropped several rounds on one of my platoons who were hiding in woods, killing a large number. One important thing to remember is: keep your units within command radius of their headquarters, but spaced apart enough that a single big artillery hit doesn't wipe out 2/3 of a platoon. Infantry in trees (scattered trees, woods or tall pines) will also suffer from artillery treebursts which are much more devastating).

[Captain Wacky]

Don't listen to Soddball, I'm kicking his butt while he plans an assualt up Mt. Everest

[Soddball]

Get out of here Wacky, you worthless chimp. You'll frighten the boy with your purple genitals.

[MikeyD]

Have I every been wiped out by artillery?

Well, maybe by my own heavy rocket barrage! Those darned Nebelwerfers are liable to drop anywhere and one of those big guys in exactly the right spot... Kapow! Half your units are routed!

[Cos]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Soddball:

Get out of here Wacky, you worthless chimp. You'll frighten the boy with your purple genitals.<hr></blockquote>

This that a new mod to get them that color?

[Captain Wacky]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cos:

This that a new mod to get them that color?<hr></blockquote>

They're high-res too.

[Silvio Manuel]

Easiest way to avoid death by large-caliber artillery...play Short-75 Rules! Or even Panther-76...though 155mm is still nasty.

I agree that Artillery shouldn't be any cheaper...from all accounts I've heard, the actual Rate of Fire in WWII was far far higher for standard shells like 105mm and the 25 pdr...the kind of barrage you'd get from targeting 2+ FO's on the same point...but in real life that was achieved by a higher R.O.F. from just 1 battery of 4 tubes.

[Scott B]

There are two basic methods to defend against artillery, in much the way that one defends against air attacks: passive and active methods.

Passive methods, mainly, are keeping your forces hidden until the last possible moment (preferably when they're close enough that enemy troops would also suffer losses from their own incoming shells), while keeping them spread out to the extent that one shell can't blow them into hamburger. It also can be of some use not to place them in the most obvious locations (at least at the start), in case your opponent is prone to preparatory bombardments against suspected targets.

Active methods are tougher; here, you want to actually affect your opponent's means of targeting you. It's difficult to identify observers even when they are spotted, so deliberately targeting them is not going to be an option most of the time. That leaves using smoke rounds for obscuration, which may or may not be practical, and targeting potential areas used by spotters, especially two story buildings, etc.

Scott

[Soddball]

Mr Silvio Manuel! Aha! Get thee hence to the Antithicess thread and make thy presence known by taunting, for it is more of thy gamey kind we need.

As for Wacky's high-res purple equipment, I shall say no more than to look out for a brilliant new mod at Gustav 109's website. They're not pert, but they're high-res.

[Stoffel]

hehe,try me

I posted an answer on the opponent finder forum.

you did not react though.......

it might change my behaviour against you if you would dare to try

[CMplayer]

Try hugging a tree.

[Scipio]

Artillery : everything bigger than a 120mm will make you headache in the hands of an experienced opponent. But keep in mind: shells fly into both directions. As defender you can use TRPs. Place them where you expect the enemy attack. You can generally avoid heavy artillery by using Scipio's (my) artillery rule, you can find it at WarfareHQ, check the Combat Mission SectionHQ.

Defense : a simple wisdom - don't try to defend all VL. That's senseless. Defend what you can defend best.

Human opponents/AI - the big difference is, when you fight vs the AI, you must defeat the enemy troops. The AI don't has a will that can be brocken. A human opponent has. Try to defeat the enmy leader. No one can win if he don't believes that he can.

[Captain Wacky]

"To win war you do not defeat weapons, you defeat the soul of enemy man."

Patton

[109 Gustav]

If you find yourself caught in an arty barrage and decide to run out of it instead of staying, run sideways instead of streight back. The pattern of an arty barrage is roughly an oval, with the narrow axis perpindicular to the enemy's line of advance. Here's what I mean:

X= drop zone

.........XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.........Enemy's route of advance

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.........<----

.........XXXXXXXX

By running sideways, your troops will be moving through fire for a much shorter distance. Of course, sometimes you're better off hunkering down in the foxholes and taking the fire.

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: 109 Gustav ]</p>

[Swift]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CombatGeneral:

your a good guy soddball, you ass ... Now if you were even a half whit you would realize arrogance is a form of uncertainanty.<hr></blockquote>

Wow, I didn't realize you could behave like an uncertain bastard and show self insight at the same time... and for the arty tip: Watch the spotting rounds and when they fall run away from them fast.

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Swift ]</p>