Incoming Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 New Zealand To Scrap A-4s, Air Combat Capability By End Of Year Defense Daily 05/09/01 author: Neil Baumgardner New Zealand has decided to disband its air combat force by the end of the year, retiring the Royal New Zealand Air Force's (RNZAF) 17 A-4K attack planes without replacement, while increasing the country's overall defense budget by $294 million over the next 10 years, defense minister Mark Burton said yesterday. "It is with sadness that the government has decided to disband the air combat arm," Burton said in a statement. "While the professionalism and skill of the pilots and support crew has been second to none, their equipment is outdated and has never been used in a combat role. The simple fact is that New Zealand cannot afford modern combat aircraft and the weaponry needed to equip them, and also maintain adequate army and navy capabilities. The Air Force, therefore, will be refocused. Its key roles will be in maritime patrol and air transport." The move follows New Zealand's decision last year to withdraw from a $190 million deal to lease 28 Lockheed Martin [LMT] F-16s from the United States to replace the aging A-4s. The lease had been initiated in 1999 by the prior National Party government and was terminated by the new Labor Party government following a review that found the program to be too costly for the country's defense budget (Defense Daily, March 30, 2000). New Zealand first acquired the A-4 in 1968, the third export customer for the aircraft. In 1986, New Zealand initiated the Project Kahu upgrade program for its A-4s, equipping them with Northrop Grumman [NOC] APG-66 radars, Raytheon [RTNA/RTNB] AIM-9L Sidewinder air-to-air missiles and AGM-65 Maverick air-to-ground missiles, and GBU-16 bombs. Two RNZAF A-4s have crashed over the past year, leaving the country with 17 remaining aircraft. Maintaining the A-4Ks would have cost $210 million over the next five years, or $500 million over the next 10 years, the government said. Cutting the aircraft will save New Zealand, which was currently only funding them at a basic level, $168 million over the next five years and $365 million over the next 10 years. In addition to its A-4Ks, The RNZAF's 17 MB339CB jet trainers, made by Italy's Aermacchi, will be retired as part of the cuts. It is not clear how New Zealand will dispose of the aircraft following their retirement. The RNZAF has operated combat aircraft since 1937. Remaining A-4 operators include Argentina, Brazil, which operates them from the aircraft carrier Minas Gerais and soon the newly acquired Clemenceau-class carrier Sao Paulo, Indonesia, Israel, Singapore, and the U.S. Navy. The move also means the RNZAF will have to withdraw from Australia's Naval Air Station Nowra, where the A-4s provide threat training for the Royal Australian Navy. Australian defense minister Peter Reith said New Zealand's decision to ax its air combat capability would have only a temporary effect on Australian Defence Force training.null Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlapanzer Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Back up the moving van. ------- It's good to be at the top of the food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPA Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 What makes this day in history even sadder, the 10 May 1940 was the day that the Germans launched their invasion of the Low Countries. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltfed Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 That's kind of sad. I know that NZ has no need of a large AF but I think some capability should be retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 A country is showing some semblence of wit and dearming. They certainly are aware of their history, yet they have made the decision. They figure that they do not need to spend 350 million $ on armaments which can be better spent on civilian economoy. This is sad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 I don't know what kind of Navy they have, I would assume a country that size doesn't have a carrier, but I could be wrong. I always held the notion that air power was the 1st line of defense. With no air, thrn what good does it do keeping an army and navy? If hostilities did ever break out over there, I think all the politians would be running to change their underware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 i hate to sound ignorant, but who would fight new zealand? i mean, sure it's worrisome they are disarming, but what could their obsolete planes do if they were attacked by...whoever hates new zealand and has sufficent capacity to lauch an air/nav invasion(how many is that)...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incoming Posted May 10, 2001 Author Share Posted May 10, 2001 Juno, One word, SARCASM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by russellmz: i hate to sound ignorant, but who would fight new zealand? i mean, sure it's worrisome they are disarming, but what could their obsolete planes do if they were attacked by...whoever hates new zealand and has sufficent capacity to lauch an air/nav invasion(how many is that)...?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You got a point there. I mean, com'on, A-4 Skyhawks? Yes they were used to simulate MiGs at Top Gun through the 80's, but now? I don't think an A-4 would be a good simulator for the Su-37. But anyway, without an AirForce now these days, what's the use of having a military anyway? I feel sorry for ol' Marco now. New Zealand gets invaded by Australia, LOL! we won't get any new mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Well I don't think anyone is going to be invading NZ for a long while. But what this move will do is prevent NZ from being able to help its SEATO buddies with airpower. And may or may not allow Indonisia to get a uppity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Incoming, sarcasm calls for more than one word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>i hate to sound ignorant, but who would fight new zealand? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the All Blacks kick our English asses just one more time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: If the All Blacks kick our English asses just one more time...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's a sports reference for those of you who are getting all upset just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty's Double Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Remember, they are still filming Lord of the Rings down there, so right now there's about 10,000 Uruk Hai just waiting to kick some foreign ass. Be afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monty's Double: Remember, they are still filming Lord of the Rings down there, so right now there's about 10,000 Uruk Hai just waiting to kick some foreign ass. Be afraid.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOl! I bet one napalm bomb could wipe out an entire clan of Orcs trying to storm Helm's Deep. [ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: Pak40 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus: But anyway, without an AirForce now these days, what's the use of having a military anyway?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For providing Peacekeepers to the UN. A number of Third World countries have found this to be a lucrative trade; no reason NZ with its tradition of excellent fighters shouldn't cash in too. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Maybe the New Zealand Fly-Fly Boys can get together with the Swiss Bicycle troops and drink their troubles away. MrSpkr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 HI MOM! Before this gets locked up I just wanted to comment that perhaps the Kiwi's really need to keep their cards in the old international military power club game. You never know when you might need to clobber a few pesky foreign insurgents who have an eye for your shipping; and outright pirates are not unknown in that part of the world. Also, a nation with no air power at all would be seen as a juicy target by some terrorist state or organization. The word here is deterrence and in that game, some air force is better than none. Personally, I'd not want a pissed-off A-4 with a well-trained pilot anywhere near my family jewels! It may be old but its a grand airplane and can deliver a Mk-82 with the best of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 As a Kiwi, former soldier and amatuer militiary historian I'm like to chuck in my 2 cent's worth. The Gov'ts policy is NOT disarmament. The spending priorities aer shifting to the Army, with new LAV-3's (100 of them - 3 times as many as we had M-113's!), radios & miscellaneous other stuff. The idea is that there is no threat to the NZ Mainland, and that NZ can best contribute to the International peace-keeping/making efforts by sending well equipped and trained ground troops as part of a coalition force (UN, or similar). Such a force would inevitably be based around a core from a larger nation, and would not be there to fight a war but maybe would ahve to fight some limited local actions. Jet fighters are of no use in such a scenario. Transports and Helicopters aer, and both are slated for upgrading and/or replacement. At the moment 1/3rd of the NZ army is overseas on such forces - mainly East Timor, but recently in Kuwait (A NZ officer was killed in the bombing accident there recently) and the Balkans. As a policy it makes eminent sense to me, despite the screams of outrage from various quarters. And it's being backed up by increased defence spending to allow it to happen - the first time for a decade or more that that's happened! It would be nice to be a bigger country with a larger defence budget and to have lots more toys to play with, but I've done my bit in that direction adn it's up to he younger generations to keep breeding now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike the bike: ...I've done my bit in that direction adn it's up to he younger generations to keep breeding now!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mike, does this mean you're a non-breeding variety of Kiwi? Wouldn't that make one a kiwifruit, perchance? TELL ME IT ISN'T SO, MATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 no, no, no Gunner - stop putting your fantasies onto me mate!! I'm a fully bred-out Kiwi!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 From Rex <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If the All Blacks kick our English asses just one more time...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's friggin hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianc Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 I think it's great that they're going to save themselves alot of cash. Think of all the man hours spent in purchasing non-contributing hardware. The world is becoming an increasingly tough place, and it would be nice to think of the fruits of our labours going to something constructive for everyone. A pipe dream perhaps, but don't you wish the US could do it? ianc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Agree with you Mike the Bike as long as they keep their marine surveillance stuff up my Mum and Dad will be kept in food and clothes tho hehe. NZ only has 3.5 million people and we do manage to have some 4 frigates and 12,000 soldiers (including territorials or something) and a fair number of transporty plane things.. we do ok and our peace-keeping efforts have been exemplorary.. It's a wise move by the Govt. PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by russellmz: i hate to sound ignorant, but who would fight new zealand? i mean, sure it's worrisome they are disarming, but what could their obsolete planes do if they were attacked by...whoever hates new zealand and has sufficent capacity to lauch an air/nav invasion(how many is that)...?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How about Australia? If they keep sending over their unemployed to claim our social security benefits that would seem to be a good enough reason to me. But then again, all we have to do is be patient and NZ will become our 7th state soon enough! Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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