scenariuo dept: why are many UN_downloadable ?

[Cauldron]

Why is the Scenario Depot at :

http://www.dragonlair.net/combatmission/

a vehicle for frustration ? Many of the scenario's have a cannot download sign. Many don't even have web sites where you can !! [ check it for yourself].

The most fun part is going to the "other scenario's by ths author" only to find none of them are downloadable either. I can assure you it will make you happy <not>.

Such a brilliant site, so little ACTAUAL content.

I hope someone finds this a new and DOWNLOADABLE home.........

:confused:

[Wolfe]

Probably because most used to be stored at the now defunct CMHQ Depot. You can DL the archive along with much of Rune's stuff here: CMHQ ftp

All mine are listed and linked to on Keith's site. I don't know that David Aitken's are listed, but you can go to his site for them:

David's CM Page.

Moon has his own site as well, though his are usually mirrored on other pages too.

Manx's Combat Missions has a large selection. And don't forget Desert Fox Desert Rats

I'm probably leaving out a number of good sites.

- Chris

[ 08-05-2001: Message edited by: Wolfe ]

[M Hofbauer]

Cauldron,

your ridicule is inappropriate.

The reason for the problems you encountered and described above AFAIK is that Mr Keith had the decency to email all the authors of said scenarios to get permission to host them. Until that permission is given, the files of the respective author are not DLed or even linked yet.

This is also the reason why all files of a given author would not work!

Mr Millers behavior of asking before hosting is a very decent one. Why you would turn such an honorable policy into badmouthing his site as having no actual content is beyond me. Besides, it is obvious that the site is just being built up.

The architecture and idea behind Mr Millers depot shows *great* potential and looks rather promising to me.

(just for the record, I do not know Mr Miller beyond the fact that he is the author of said site.)

[Fieldmarshall]

What the heck is the scenariuo dept??

[Berlichtingen]

Cauldron,

Your post was out of line. Try reading the news on the site... it explains what is going on.

[CMplayer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

Try reading the news on the site... it explains what is going on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is the relevent bit, from the first

page of the site, in fact practically the

first thing to read there:

Only about 200+ files have been linked so far, but efforts will continue over the next couple of weeks, as permissions arrive, to associate reviews with files. At last count, there are 900+ battles and operations to link, so please be patient.

--Rett

[Admiral Keth]

Gang,

I am feverishly attempting to acquire authorial permission to host the scenario files. Individual authors ARE slowly returning the emails I sent out, but this is a lengthy process. Every day I receive 3 to 4 permissions back (any where from 1 to 8 scenarios on the average) from the 150+ emails I sent out.

In addition, numerous authors emails are completely invalid, leaving me with no method by whuch they can be contacted. Legally and morally their scenarios must necessarily be unlinked until they can be contacted. Perhaps if someone with a legal background can advise on this issue, i.e., making reasonable attempts to contact, then going ahead and hosting, I would appreciate it.

I understand the need and desirability to have the files associated with the reviews, but there is a process which will not be circumvented. I also understand any frustration you may be feeling, as it is equally frustrating to simply not place every single scenario I have (ibid 900+) straight up there. To do so would invite the inevitable derision and enmity of this community, as well as the potential copyright infringement lawsuit.

I hope this, as well as the explanation on The Scenario Depot site, explains why it is taking some time to link the scenarios with the reviews.

[Pvt. Ryan]

I don't think there are any copyright issues involved with hosting scenarios as long as they are posted as created, without modification, and credit is clearly given to the author. Some of the scenario creators include a message indicating whether the scenario can be hosted or modified. I don't believe you have any intention to modify the scenarios, so that is not an issue. Unless the author has specificially requesed permission before hosting the scenario, I don't think you need to get permission, but it is nice if you can get it. I believe that any copyright which may exist with scenarios ultimately belongs to BTS since they created the system under which the scenarios were designed, which would make the scenarios derivative works. If someone downloads a scenario, modifies it, and posts it as a new scenario without credit to the person that originally designed the scenario, that would probably upset the original designer, but I still don't think there is really a copyright issue there. That's just my opinion, and I don't mean to step on any toes. This opinion is not valid in the 50 United States, Canada, Mexico, or where prohibited by law.

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: Pvt. Ryan ]

[Frenchy]

Admiral - you are doing a fine job. I think Cauldron's post had but one purpose: stir up crap that wasn't necessary. If he could read your site as Berli noted - he wouldn't have had cause to post in the first place.

[Andreas]

Admiral, I was very pleased to receive your email, and think that regardless of considerations of copyright you have done a great service to Common Courtesy . While I don't want my scenarios linked directly on your site, since they are in their own and unique environment at Der Kessel, I think it is a great service you are providing, and it is much appreciated. A site like yours pulls together all the work that has been done and makes it easily accessible.

Now if only the players would reciprocate by actually putting up the reviews, instead of just sitting back consuming, all would be for the best...

Don't let yourself be distracted in your work by those who don't understand that good work takes time.

Keep it up.

[Michael Dorosh]

Email addresses for scenario designers that no longer work is a common problem. I have been scouring the net looking for British and Canadian SL and ASL scenarios, and when I email asking for permission to convert them to CM, all the emails so far have come back as undeliverable. I've gone ahead and converted them anyway, and given credit where credit is due. Many email addies given in such cases are school addresses, and some of these scenarios have been on the net for over 5 years; despite what they say about the US education system, I guess there are one or two people graduating college in 5 years or less.

[Admiral Keth]

Gang,

I believe that Pvt. Ryan is very close to the mark with regards to the literal legalities of hosting files. As long as authorial credit is properly given, and no attempt is made to modify the original scenario, then anyone can "host" a file. I fully intend to exhaust every possibility first, then research disclaimer/acknowledgement language which should satisfy 'reasonable effort'. Dissenting opinions, anyone?

Michael,

You are very correct. The largest returns I have received is from .edu addresses. Either the authors have graduated and moved their address, or simply moved onto other games after creating a single scenario. Other bounced emails come back from defunct ISP's (and there are a bunch of them!).

[TexasToast]

Hey Admiral, the site looks great! I haven't checked it out since the early days and it has come a long way since then.

I encourage everyone to head over and do a few reviews, just reading through the names reminded me of some great battles.

TT

[Pvt. Ryan]

Andreas, I forgot to take into consideration situations like yours where you create scenarios as content for your site. Someone wanting to host your scenarios should definitely have the courtesy to ask your permission first and I understand if you don't want someone hosting them. A link to Der Kessel should suffice in that case. I was thinking of all the scenarios that were designed and submitted to the old Scenario Depot and were not already hosted on a site.

[Admiral Keth]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

Andreas, I forgot to take into consideration situations like yours where you create scenarios as content for your site. Someone wanting to host your scenarios should definitely have the courtesy to ask your permission first and I understand if you don't want someone hosting them. A link to Der Kessel should suffice in that case. I was thinking of all the scenarios that were designed and submitted to the old Scenario Depot and were not already hosted on a site.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely agree in this instance. There are numerous scenarios whose authors already have their own site, to which I simply provide a link to that site's homepage.

[M Hofbauer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

While I don't want my scenarios linked directly on your site, since they are in their own and unique environment at Der Kessel, I think it is a great service you are providing, and it is much appreciated. A site like yours pulls together all the work that has been done and makes it easily accessible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry (really), but that sounds quite a bit hogwashish to me. Are your scenarios oh so exclusive that they should only be retailed via special authorized dealers? You should at least let Keith's site link to where they are, otherwise you are sabotaging the very idea behind Mr Miller's site which you yourself are praising so much in your post.

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

I have not looked at the site...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suggest you have a look at Keith's site and my scenarios there, and then edit your post. (edit) the point being of course that there are links to Der Kessel within the review page. I see this as a mechanism that should enable people to see more of the work we do at Der Kessel, not just go straight to the specific scenario. Thanks to Grego's ordering system, specific scenarios are easy to find on the site.

My scenarios there so far are:

49th Recce

TF Butler

To the last man

While they may or may not be special (I leave that judgement up to the people playing them), Der Kessel is providing a unique environment by providing for additional explanations and groupings that Keith can not do to the same degree.

Edited because I am not thinking clearly, due to a combo of two ales and cold medicine.

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: Germanboy ]

[M Hofbauer]

Andreas,

didn't mean to come off harsh (hogwashish was the closest approximation of what I wanted to say that I could come up with). Btw, I have nothing but praise for Der Kessel, and plaese note my post was not directed at the Kessel.

anyways, why are you quoting me with something I never said? That is very bad nettiquette. It's like me quoting you with something like

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

yeah, BTS originally wanted represent individual soldiers, but I bribed Steve and Charles into having the soldiers modeled the way they are now because I am still on an 486SX and am unwilling to upgrade<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

btw, gute Besserung. Sommererkältung auch hier.

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

anyways, why are you quoting me with something I never said? That is very bad nettiquette. It's like me quoting you with something like<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn, you found out my secret. Good thing I never told anyone else about the bribes leading to the inability of HMGs to run... Although I never had a 486SX, I once had a 486/40, but my first Mac cured me of that affliction...

I quoted you with something you obviously did not say (and in the post immediately following yours) so that in case you realised your mistake and wanted to edit your post, I would not have to edit mine too, bit pointless as an exercise. Not intended to offend.

As you can see, there are links in the scenario reviews, and as I understand it Netiquette, you should always link to the main page, not to selected pages within a site, so that is the Der Kessel policy for sites such as Keith's.

[Michael Dorosh]

Markus, I liked you better when you lurked; Germanboy's comments were fine, and I can understand his desire not to have his scenarios linked to. That's certainly his right, and a visit to der Kessel will answer any further questions why.

Now why don't you be a good lad and link to my LANDSER site from Panzerfaust already?

[M Hofbauer]

Mr Dorosh (if I may call you that),

1)it's not my fault that I'm off-duty because I have a cold (well maybe a little bit)

2)I'm not having a big-time fight with Germanboy, nothing to see here, please move on. I was just pointing out the problems I perceived w/r/t consistency between his statement and position on the issue; that has been cleared now;

3) I am not editing a previous post because actually I think people should stand by what they have previously said; besides, I cannot edit a former post after someone quozes me wrongly because that would give the impression that I had really written that before my editing...or something...like I told you, please all move along...

4) I have not done anything with/on the PzF site for one and a half years now or something. I think I have already forgotten both the URL to the Landser and my limited knowledge of HTML. Or something. But I'll see what I can do, maybe I can insert that link...or something.