WineCape's Wine Tourney II

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Sledge and Mr. Spkr,

Why don't you two do a heavy armor fight with moderate trees and modest hills in a rural setting with clear weather. Make the battle 3,000 points and use armor only. Those are fun fights IMO. The trees and hills hamper the Jagdpanthers enough that the Hellcats and Shermans have a fair chance. Wirbelwinds and Ostwinds can give the Hellcats hell. Fast Allied turrets keep the Panthers and Tigers in check.

No negotiations necessary. All armor is legal but only armor is legal. It's fun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. Axis heavy tanks have a definite advantage (as noted by your own statement above that the terrain effects would give the Allies a fair chance).

If you want it to be perfectly equal, how about a small to medium map, with Heer rifle squads (44 version) versus US rifle squads (44 version), any support weapons, no vehicles, no armor, 81mm artillery maximum, village terrain, low hills, low trees? The US squads are slightly stronger at under 40 yards, but it evens out at longer ranges (starting at 100m) where the MG42 really shines.

I'll take Allies, you take Axis (as we originally agreed).

The beauty of this type of arrangement is that it forces combat, both sides are qualitatively equal, and it is much more challenging than driving around watching ubertanks go at each other (and watching allied tanks go < boom >.

MrSpkr

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Fangorn]

To Sledge and MrSpkr,

I know this is not my game, but I think you two could get a third party negociator.

To MrSpkr:

Would you accept to play the heavy armour - armour only setup as the germans?

What you guys think of a mechanized game, using the recon rules or the short 75 limits for artillary?

[Treeburst155]

Play the armor battle. By "fair" I mean even. I've played a few of these and those Hellcats really get to show their stuff. In fact, I wouldn't even choose anything heavier that a Panther if I was the Germans.

As long as you use moderate trees and modest hills there's plenty of cover for the Allies.

Mr Spkr, maybe Sledge will take the Allies since you think the Germans have an advantage. I'll bet he just might go for it. Am I right, Sledge?!

[MrSpkr]

Nope. Two reasons:

(1) I don't like the heavy armor games at all;

(2) When I was evaluating your proposal, I decided to load up about 4000 pts of armor only on my machine (to look at various matchuips and such) and crashed it horribly - I am running CM (for right now) on an ancient PII 200MHz with 64mb RAM, and it locks up with that much armor on screen (and a completely BLANK map from the scenario creation menu).

I go back to my original proposal noted above - infantry only - Ami rifle unitsvs. German Heer rifle units, no vehicles or tanks; no arty above 81mm; date January 1945.

I'll take Allies as agreed, you take Germans.

Quality level is medium (no 'I'll keep fighting even though you killed my 11 squad mates and taken off myt right-arm Elite types" or "OhmygoshwhatwasthatIthinkIwetmyself" types that start at the sound of a jeep backfiring. Decent, average guys, as equal as you can get in this game.

Eminently fair and playable (and does not crash machines or cause cavities in 9 out of 10 surveys).

What say you?

[ 07-23-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Sledge59]

You're right Treeburst, I would happily play the allies in an all armor clash. This negotiation was kinda fun to have here on the board, but it's rude to our hosts and the other players if we drag it on too far. So with this new information shared by MrSpkr

I will submit to an all infantry battle. It will be a fun fight and the victory will be all the sweeter since MrSpkr has picked his own poison! Sitreps will be posted here.

Still no word from Chuckle. He seems to have fallen off the face of the earth!

[Fangorn]

Sledge,

Check the last message from Chuckle, in the page 6. He got some problems while travelling...

Also, I'm happy to see Sledge and MrSpkr finally decided how to setup their game.

On a merrier note, I managed a major victory against StugIII with the nice score of 72-28.

[Treeburst155]

Congratulations Fangorn!!

Congratulations Mr Spkr and Sledge!

Mr Spkr, you need a new machine. You would be amazed at what I could build you for $1,500. Email me for details. It's time for you to join the 21st century.

Hang in there, Stug III. Just think about how much you have learned.

Here's how we stand:

Mike8g........331...5...66.2

Fangorn.......281...4...70.3

tank buster...245...6...40.8

StuG III......194...6...32.3

Sledge........176...3...58.7

Tincan........152...5...30.4

chuckle.......122...3...40.7

Mr Spkr.......122...2...61.0

Sorted by average:

Fangorn.......281...4...70.3

Mike8g........331...5...66.2

Mr Spkr.......122...2...61.0

Sledge........176...3...58.7

tank buster...245...6...40.8

chuckle.......122...3...40.7

StuG III......194...6...32.3

Tincan........152...5...30.4

[Treeburst155]

News from the front! Sledge59 hammers Tincan 80-20. Congratulations, Sledge59!!

Hang in there, Tincan. I'm sure you are picking up lots of things you can use in the next tourney. To lose is to learn. At least that's how it works for me.

Here's the updated standings:

Mike8g............331...5...66.2

Fangorn...........281...4...70.3

Sledge.............256...4...64.0

tank buster...245...6...40.8

StuG III.......194...6....32.3

Tincan............172...6....28.7

chuckle..........122...3....40.7

Mr Spkr......122...2....61.0

Sorted by average:

Fangorn...........281...4...70.3

Mike8g............331...5...66.2

Sledge.............256...4...64.0

Mr Spkr.........122...2...61.0

tank buster...245...6...40.8

chuckle...........122...3...40.7

StuG III.......194...6...32.3

Tincan............172...6...28.7

[WineCape]

Mike,

Did 2 people fell out of this Tourney? I'm only aware of one.

Regards,

Charl Theron

[Fangorn]

WineCape,

Actually, three players dropped, we were 11 when the tourney started.

[KiwiJoe]

Fangorn: Looks like I'll be playing you in the Winecape 1 vs Winecape 2 winners clash. Brace ya self, It'll be a bumpy ride!

[Treeburst155]

We've been down to eight in this tourney for some time. The other one has nine contestants remaining although Labappel has not completed a game yet.

[Treeburst155]

I have been unable to access my AOL email account for the last several days. Since some of you have been sending results to that address I may not know about it. Please send results to Mikeman@cablelynx.com from now on. Thanks!!

[Wild Bill Wilder]

The battles will be mixed, a combination of forces which is realistic and historical.

There will be some infantry heavy battles. CM is, after all, primarily a tactical infantry game.

Your skills will be needed as a commander, much more than weapon size. You will be pushed hard to make the right choices that will lead to victory.

And victory will not come easily!

Wild Bill

[Treeburst155]

The post above was meant for the new Wild Bill tourney in case you're wondering. You guys should feel free to ask for an application to that tourney if you want. This one SHOULD be over before the new one starts.

[MrSpkr]

ATTENTION:

Since those pillocks at AT&T can't seem to figure out how to install the digital wireless at our new home, turns will be late. How late? Well, First I have to wait the requisite 48 hours for their 'engineers' to figure out that the dish is not installed correctly, then an additional 5 - 7 working days for them to get some feeb out to the house to take care of it. In the mean time, I might see if I can dig up one of my old coffee coasters, er, AOL Free disks and get back on temporarily. Until then, sod off.

[Treeburst155]

We need to talk about the FINAL Deadline for the completion of this tournament. I'm going to extend the tourney to November 1st. ANY player who has not completed ALL his games by then will be disqualified, ALL his completed games thrown out, and ALL players' scores adjusted accordingly.

The whole idea of this tournament is for everybody to play everybody else one time, giving all players an equal number of games (chances to score points), with those games being against the same opponents.

If you cannot complete your games by November 1st you need to DROP OUT of the tournament so your buddies don't get screwed because they couldn't finish their game with you. As soon as you determine that you will not finish by November 1st you need to email me so I can drop you.

If a player drops as described above, ALL his games will be void and players' scores adjusted accordingly. Yes, this means if you scored 90 points against him you will lose that 90 points. If a player drops it is just like he never participated in the first place.

Please, if you find you can't make the November 1st deadline (you should be able to tell a couple weeks earlier IMO) you need to drop out. Otherwise, those who didn't finish their games with you, through no fault of their own, will be disqualified for not finishing. If you have an opponent who is only managing a turn or two per week you might want to lean on him a bit.

Remember, November 1st is THE deadline.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[MrSpkr]

Okay, amusingly enough, I now have home internet access, but the telephone is out.

Go figure.

Anyway, I am resuming play now. If I did not send you a turn in the last 24 hours, then please resend the last turn to me as stephen.hines@att.net .

Also, Sledge - could you please send a setup based on our last agreement? We should probably get our game started in light of Treeburst's post.

[Treeburst155]

Another deadline!!

Since this is a PBEM tournament with TCP/IP optional if BOTH players agree, players should not be forced into an 11th hour TCP/IP game.

Therefore, all games must be past the setup phase (Turn 1 orders plotted and sent by the first player) by September 15th. This allows six weeks to complete the game, once underway.

Any player who has not reached this point in ALL of his unfinished games by September 15 will be dropped from the tournament. If it is not your fault that you can't make the September 15th condition for your games I need to hear from you so you don't get dropped. I may need email showing that you tried diligently to comply with the September 15 deadline. In most cases I think it will be easy to tell who is holding things up; but keep email sent to people who you suspect may cause you to miss the September 15th deadline, just in case.

[Treeburst155]

Due to my immaturity and inability to cope with this same fault in others this tournament is hereby closed.

Treeburst155 outta here forever.

[Fangorn]

Am I the only one wondering what the hell is happening?

This means I won't get some nice red wine? Argh, someone gotta pay for this. :mad:

[Kanonier Reichmann]

I suggest you read the "Tournament of Stars" thread, especially the last couple of pages. This should give you a very good hint at why Treeburst has blown a fuse. It would appear that some players were so desperate to win they were prepared to go to EXTREME lengths to achieve that outcome and I'm guessing those lengths and subsequent complaints to Treeburst has simply worn him down to the point of complete exasperation/exhaustion.

At least that's my take on it anyway.

Regards

Jim R.

[WineCape]

Dear Mike and "Stars" Participants as well as WineCape Tourney I&II Participants,

Finally got some access to this forum, here is my e-mail in full send via Wild Bill:

I came back today (Sunday), just officiated a gruelling professional soccer match near Johannesburg (1,200km from home), feeling drained emotionally as well as physically, to find that everything has collapsed in the mean time!! :-/

I heard the news via 2 emails from some caring folk earlier today. Though of late I'm also receiving emails intermittently, no doubt being in Africa is of no top priority for any company organising internet networks/cables to this continent. Therefor, I might have missed crucial emails from Mike and others as to this current state of affairs.

*This* is as NEWS to me as to you and the rest of the WineCape/Invitational participants, no doubt! And I have not the slightest clue as what might have happened, obviously via some email exchanges between Treeburst and participant(s). Though I could most probably guess as to why he wants/did pull out, I am out of the guessing/assuming game with *this* Forum for sure!

I have not as of yet received any word from Treeburst, and await his version of what transpired. (I've emailed him today)

I might persuade him to re-consider, which I'll certainly try to do. I would hate to loose Treeburst in a personal as well CM capacity. Mike Meinecke (Treeburst155) is a boon to this CM forum, FULLSTOP!

Rest assured, I'm still fully committed to all the current Tourney's and their prizes as well as your Rumblings of War tourney to-be Bill. You/current participants have my word. As to the future of the Invitational/WineCape Tourneys, please all, just be at "standby" for the time being until I've spoken to Treeburst. Finish your games that are already underway.

Now lets see if I can play the referee again in a non-outdoor activity ...

Regards from Africa and stay well all,

Charl Theron (WineCape)

Stellenbosch, RSA.

[Sledge59]

I'd like to express my gratitude to Mike and Charl for the opportunity to participate in this tournament. In my opinion you two deserve the grand prize for being such gracious hosts in all of the events currently underway.

I am quite willing to complete what we have started here. We have all made a commitment to this event and it seems only appropriate to follow it through to the end.

Thanks again!

[Treeburst155]

I have had time to cool off and rethink things. This tournament has caused me no undo amount of problems. Also, I'm a firm believer in finishing what I start if at all possible. I will continue to run this tournament unless you guys would rather pick one from among you who isn't so temperamental as I. Until I hear different I am back on the bench. Sorry for all the trouble. You guys have been great.

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]