CM:BO Invitational PBEM Tourney of "Stars" …. Part II

[Fuerte]

Hello, I have spent my summer holidays, so I have now time for a few more matches. I am playing just one at the moment, and two more are starting. Just send me a message, I'm open to anything... the use of PBEM helper is recommended!

[WineCape]

At last,

Fuerte has waken up from the artic cold! St. Patrick (aka the Irish Juggernaut) has to be stopped gentleman. We can't have this to be a 1 horse race!

[Moon]

Yep, Berli and I will slug it out on the original map.

BTW, it's a shame you changed the maps, Treeburst. Who talked you into that?

I kinda liked the fact that you had to smash the opponent real well to get a higher score. It's the ultimate objective, isn't it?Flags are indicators for me, not objectives, and in this kind of close tourney, I found the original maps to work pretty well to separate the good from the better players.

[Treeburst155]

Moon,

VLs and meeting engagements present an interesting situation. If there is insufficient value assigned to no-mans land through the placement of VLs then the incentive to attack is greatly reduced. Your opponent (or yourself) can be held to a minor victory rather easily IMO utilizing the passive tactics described in my long post above. You are playing on one such map now; that being Map M.

In order to induce a MEETING of the forces, no-mans land must have enough value that it cannot be ignored. A violent clash of men and machines will result, and in fact be necessary to avoid a tactical loss. The undesireable side effect of the valuable no-mans land is the increased likelihood of a last minute flag dive. This has always been a problem, especially with meeting engagements; but it is preferable IMO to the passive tactics that can result from a relatively worthless no-mans land.

I find it all quite interesting. If one wants to be SURE that BOTH commanders will go all out to annihilate the forces of the enemy one must give them something of value to fight over. This is a result of the fact that the community now knows how victory points are calculated.

[John Kettler]

CapitalistDog's back, and he was greeted by a hungry Crocodile, whose appetite took him aback and really puckered him up. Not long enough, though.

The flame gunner was an idiot, being truly unable to hit the side of a house loaded with Germans. The gunner was superb, putting round after round into the building. I carefully retargeted the Croc, and fearing infantry, ordered a reverse. Comes the movie. I see: more shots directed into the house, no flame, a majestic arc of flame aimed somewhere way to the left of the target house, the Croc starts to reverse, a German unit pops up from nowhere yet close by and fires, followed by the dread "frontal penetration" message. This happened with friendly infantry all over the place, many on perch in overlooking buildings. The doughty German team died in a fusillade of vengeance fire, but that is NOT an acceptable trade for a Croc.

There was so much artillery firing on and around the town that I thought I was under Nebelwerfer attack. Explosions everywhere.

My own artillery seems to be doing good work, but I'm under pressure from the front and right flank, with more to come. He's chewing on my pickets.

Will keep you posted.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

(Severe temporospatial distortion (time warp) occurs, accompanied by strange lights, optical distortions, static, and weird sounds. There is a pronounced smell of ozone, doubtless the result of immense electrical discharges.)

SuperTed and I, after sober, mature consideration of our diplomatic differences, have decided to go to war. Terms are being negotiated, and we're debating

Treeburst155's revised map announcement and associated options.

Treeburst155, we'll request a map once negotiations are complete.

For SuperTed and John Kettler,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

It's war with SuperTed! Urban renewal via urban removal.

Minor force limitations have been negotiated and agreed to. Map will be "I" (improved), per Treeburst155 proposal (please wait to send out map until we send our force buys, Treeburst155).

I think this will be more like a barroom brawl than a duel with rapiers. The mayhem possibilities are vast.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Capitalistdoginchina]

John,

The squad running up to the Croc were a decoy, a Panzerschreck team was in one of the buildings and scored a first time kill from 70 meters.....That AT team is the same one that took out your first Crocodile, those 2 fellas could well have tipped the scales in my favour, medals will be awarded

Regards

CDIC

[Treeburst155]

News from the front!!

CapitalistDogInChina has shattered the forces of SuperTed. The final score was 75-25. Congratulations, CapDogInChina!!

Updated standings, sorted by average score:

Claymore............99...1...99.00

Fionn..............539...7...77.00

CapDog..............75...1...75.00

Moon................60...1...60.00

Jshandorf...........58...1...58.00

Texas Toast........158...3...52.67

SuperTed...........179...4...44.75

Jarmo...............41...1...41.00

M. Dorosh..........150...4...37.50

Bill Hardenberger...70...2...35.00

MickOZ.............121...4...30.25

John Kettler.......20....1...20.00

Berlichtingen......70....4...17.50

[Treeburst155]

Another battle of The First Invitational War is finished. jShandorf has trounced Berlichtingen 86-14! Congratulations, jShandorf!! Hang in there, Berli. That last loss didn't hurt your average much at all. LOL!! You have nowhere to go but up.

Here's how we stand, sorted by average:

Claymore..........99...1...99.00

Fionn.............539...7...77.00

CapDog...........75...1...75.00

Jshandorf.......144...2...72.00

Moon.............60...1...60.00

Texas Toast.......158...3...52.67

SuperTed..........179...4...44.75

Jarmo..............41...1...41.00

M. Dorosh.........150...4...37.50

Bill Hardenberger...70...2...35.00

MickOZ.............121...4...30.25

John Kettler........20...1...20.00

Berlichtingen.....84...5...16.80

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Hang in there, Berli. That last loss didn't hurt your average much at all. LOL!! You have nowhere to go but up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brings to mind the song "Always look on the bright side of life"... but as I recall, they sang that while crucified

[Jarmo]

My game vs Claymore is well under way. So far we've mainly been probing in search of soft spots. I'm down two cromwells and Claymore's lost something that looks like a Panther. Both have lost a small amount of infantry.

But our artillery usage sure looks impressive!

I'm dropping 5.5" VT here and there, while he's replying with salvoes of 240mm. Looks great but is probably not very cost efficient.

[John Kettler]

A quick update.

SuperTed and I are officially at war. By now, he should have the first movie turn in his possession. I have awakened from my blinkered slumber and am no longer eyes wide shut. (Note: We've secretly substituted another John Kettler for the real one. The plan is to evaluate SuperTed's response to strange new tactics and maneuvers.)

CapDog has begun to apply very strong pressure to my left flank in the town, using elements which survived pounding by the 25 pdr. fire and what appears to be a largely intact platoon formerly on the small VL hill to the left. A hot fight is in progress there while a skirmish is occurring between part of that platoon and survivors of my platoon once on that hill. Meanwhile, my right flank is being chewed on to keep me from shifting troops while he advances on my right front. Artillery fire continues to rain down, seemingly at random.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Jarmo]

My email address has changed. I now live at:

jarmo.laakso@tintti.net

I like the new 256K connection. Snappy enough for me.

Only drawback is that I'm now compelled to spend all

my time online. With a flat monthly rate, the longer

I'm online, the more money I save! Right! :eek:

BTW. I could use another winegame around this time.

Any takers?

[Treeburst155]

Berlichtingen increases average with Major Defeat!! Congratulations, Berli!! Oh, the winner was Texas Toast by a score of 77-23. Congratulations, Texas Toast!!

It is now time to offer the bonus prize of $50 US for the first time. The bonus game:

Berlichtingen vs MickOZ!!!

If either one of them can score 75 Points or more against the other the bonus prize will be sent to him upon completion of the game. This offer void if I have not received force purchases by September 15. That gives you guys about five weeks to arrange a game and get your purchases to me.

If neither player achieves 75 points the Bonus Prize will be offered again at a later date.

Now for the standings:

Claymore...........99...1...99.00

Fionn.............539...7...77.00

CapDog.............75...1...75.00

Jshandorf.........144...2..72.00

Moon..............60...1...60.00

Texas Toast.......235...4...58.75

SuperTed..........179...4...44.75

Jarmo..............41....1...41.00

M. Dorosh..........150...4...37.50

Bill Hardenberger...70...2...35.00

MickOZ..............121...4...30.25

John Kettler.........20...1...20.00

Berlichtingen.......107...6...17.83

[WineCape]

Gentleman,

The rabbit has been pulled out of the hat for the bonus game Berli vs Mick_Oz!

Snare the hare!

[John Kettler]

Battle has been joined with SuperTed's forces.

The initial clash took place between German elements in the upper levels of the building just in front of the left small VL and British troops in the nearby treeline. Ducking and dodging ensued on both sides. The next turn saw the apparent eviction of these elements via a fusillade of British fire, returning the VL to my control.

Meanwhile, a mix of smoke screens on my right

and strong H&I fires to the center zone going left allowed my men to advance largely unmolested and occupy the two large VLs. It looked as though SuperTed was trying to get there first, but the indicators were far from firm, given FOW.

Several buildings on the left side of town are already ablaze and burning merrily.

My tactical display shows the battle's going well. I control most of the VLs--assuming the display is correct. I doubt this delightful state of affairs will continue. SuperTed has designs on my turf, you see.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WineCape:

Gentleman,

The rabbit has been pulled out of the hat for the bonus game Berli vs Mick_Oz!

Snare the hare! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you send me Mike's e-mail address? The e-mail that contained everyone's addresses died with the PC it was on

[WineCape]

Berli,

Mike's email address: Mikeman@cablelynx.com .

Best of luck with your bonus game!

Regards,

Charl Theron

[Shandorf]

In regards to draws...

Well, all my games now are turning out too close to draws it seems.

Maybe its me? Maybe it's all the damn FOG maps I keep getting. Grrrr...

Jeff

P.S. I want some MORE games. Send me an e-mail at: jshandorf@mediaone.net.

As for you lay-abouts that can't get back turns ASAP. You suck.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Shandorf ]

[Treeburst155]

There are nine maps out of the nineteen that have poor visibility.

Draws are very possible on ALL my maps since no side has ANY significant terrain advantages over the other. If your opponent plays as well as you do, the game could very well result in a draw.

My concern is that the maps not be SO draw prone, due to terrain, that superior play is not rewarded or even given a chance to be used. I can make a 12" putt just as well as Tiger Woods, but that doesn't mean I can golf as well as him. Maps with rivers through the middle with only a handful of crossings are too draw prone IMO. It is very risky for either player to attempt crossing the river to pick up "the other guy's VLs" if his opponent is fairly competent. These few maps have been changed substantially. With all 19 maps as they stand right now I feel confident that superior play will be rewarded and draws will result in cases of equal skill only.

[John Kettler]

The war with CapDog isn't going well. He continues to advance on my right, and has even gotten well into my rear in places. He did this via widely bypassing the town's right flank.

Both my left and my right are hotly engaged, and there are indications that the Germans are about to move against my right in strength.

The situation on the left is a chaotic bloodbath. I'm better protected in heavy buildings; he's in scattered trees but has more shooters. Artillery continues to rain down with frightening randomness. My extreme left well outside town took more abuse than it was designed for. My guys fired on a presumed German squad, which turned out to be a wholly unexpected truculent flamethrower team with excellent aim. The survivors are even now being harried by swarms of 7.92mm Spitzer.

The battle vs SuperTed has become general. I've had a UC shot at on my extreme left (UC popped smoke), a Wasp killed by a 'schreck team to the left center, and been in a raging firefight near the right main VL. Other details of my activities are classified.

The Wasp went down fighting, destroying not only the assigned building, but apparently catching Germans in the building, and dry roasting Germans near the building, before dying in the line of duty. That Wasp served me well by torching a bunch of buildings which otherwise would've long since been filled with angry Germans.

One of the surprises in the game has been SuperTed's use of Volksturm conscript forces.

They don't like being shot at much, but are they ever numerous!

As predicted, SuperTed has moved aggressively to displace me. Presently, I hold two small VLs. The large left VL is evidently in German hands; the large right VL is contested. Needless to say, I'm screaming for fire support.

Regards,

John Kettler

[SuperTed]

To Whom it May Concern,

I accepted the invitation to join this tournament because it sounded like it would be fun and I thought it would be a great opportunity to get to know some people. I have indeed gotten to know some people, and for that I am grateful.

Unfortunately, the fun I have had has been overshadowed by the behaviour of certain individuals. I was under the impression that this was going to be a tournament that was going to be designed with an emphasis on having fun instead of winning at all costs.

Well, it appears some players were thinking that as well. Unfortunately, there are also several players whose only interest is in winning their battles, no matter what the cost. It is these players and their endless "negotiating" of rules and whining about "gamey" play when they are losing (only to then employ "gamey" tactics of their own) that has led to my decision to withdraw from this tournament.

Now, I want to make one thing perfectly clear. Mike has done a fantastic job with this tournament. He deserves a lot of credit for undertaking this endeavor and I hope his next tournament is a success.

If any of my current opponents (Mick, Bil, and Jeff) would like to continue our battles, I would be happy to do so. It would only be for fun, since none of my battles will count toward the final point tally. If you are not interested in continuing, I would understand completely.

Thank you for your time.

[Treeburst155]

Obeservations and Lessons Learned

It has become apparent to me that it was a mistake to mix ladder and/or competition oriented players with historical players in the same tournament. I should have realized this from the beginning. I guess I was hoping that pre-game negotiations would iron out any issues.

Much to my surprise, I've learned that purely historical players don't want to bother with rules and restrictions because they don't need them. They just aren't interested in exchanging 10 emails to lay down ground rules that they have never found necessary. They will make realistic force purchases, and use realistic tactics. Winning the game is secondary to these two things.

To thrust a purely historical player into a situation where he must negotiate many rules and restrictions before he can even start the game is to seriously detract from his CM PBEM fun (the whole reason for the tournament). Unfortunately, in order to have the CM experience he enjoys IN THIS TOURNAMENT, the historical player NEEDS to negotiate extensively with those he has never played before if he hopes to avoid gamey tactics and force picks. Either way, the purely historical player has a good chance of not enjoying his tournament experience. This is not a good thing. A 1,500 point game of CM takes quite a bit of time so it has to be fun.

Based on my experiences so far with this tournament I can see many situations coming up in the future that will not be pleasant for me or the players involved.

I've come up with a plan to deal with this, and one other problem too. I would like players' opinions on my plan.

There are two problems I'd like to solve:

Problem 1: Historical and competition players do not mix

Problem 2: At the present rate the slowest third of players will need more than a year to complete their games. This is just too long. CMBB will probably be out before this is over, and interest in this tournament will wane.

What I would like to do is re-organize EVERYTHING.

I propose that we break the tournament up into 2 separate tournaments. Tourney #1 would be for competition oriented players who play to win using whatever tactics and force picks work. Tourney #2 would be for the historical players. Gamey tactics or force purchases would not be tolerated in Tourney #2. If you want to scout with AT teams or burn down the map you want to play in Tourney #1. If you want to be sure you don't see such tactics you want into Tourney #2.

If we do this then all players would only have to play nine games rather than nineteen. This would take about six months for the slower players to complete, which is fine.

I propose we start the entire thing over (the only good way). Players can sign up for the Competition Tourney or the Historical Tourney. All games completed or in progress are tossed out (finish them if you want but they won't count). My $50 bonus prize will go to the winner of the Competition Tourney instead. The $50 Sportsmanship prize will go to the winner of the Historical Tourney. Berli and MickOZ lose out on their shot at the Bonus Prize but they also lose their bad records. Claymore and WineCape can decide what they want to do with their prize donations.

The Competition Tourney would have no rules except those agreed to by players in pre-game negotiations. The Historical Tourney would have one VERY important rule.

That being, no gamey tactics or force picks. If you even THINK some tactic or force makeup MIGHT be perceived as gamey by your opponent you shouldn't do it. When in doubt, don't.

This is a radical proposal, I know; but if you could see how this tourney is progressing from my point of view I think you would be convinced that some major changes need to be implemented for this thing to be fun for all. I've made some mistakes and I'm learning from them. I can have the whole thing reorganized and running in no more than one week if the majority of you wish to do this.

PLEASE let me know what you think of this idea. You have been kind enough to accept your invitation to this tournament and I want it to be fun for you. Your opinion of my proposal carries weight whether you are for it our against it. I want to hear from YOU. Thanks.

Sincerely, Treeburst155 (Mike)

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[WineCape]

SuperTed as well as Treeburst155,

Please e-mail me so that we can discuss this (if possible) in private.

SuperTed, I respect your descision, even so, I would still like to hear your side in detail, via e-mail that is.

Sincerely,

Charl Theron