Forever Babra Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 My list of opponents never to play again is growing too long. In my latest frustration, though outnumbered over 10:1 (really), my opponent still thought a mass "crew rush" a suitable tactic. Not surprisingly, the last of my precious ammo was expended in the subsequent slaughter. It really takes the fun out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 But that's really not beacause the crews have even the unrealistically feeble weapons. That's just poor tactics. And what did you intend to do with the remaining ammo anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 That's what you get for playing with the FPS crowd. Or didn't you know? <g> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 The only time I've perhaps "misused" crews is in my last PBeM game, where I kept them popping up in different locales to make my troop count appear higher than it was. The tactic worked in faking out my opponent, but I ultimately lost anyway... A crew rush seems really gamey, but should be easily defeated. I'd rather see crews able to realistically take a self defense shot, than be COMPLETELY useless after diving out. Why model them at all if they are going to be absolutely useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 2, 2001 Author Share Posted January 2, 2001 They accomplished their goal easily. Their useless bodies absorbed my ammo. Then the fresh platoon of infantry hit me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Oh, then it was just a russian type tactics. Effective in a way, but uncommon in the west front, I'm sure. Oh, and I don't think disarming the crews would make that tactic any less effective. [This message has been edited by Jarmo (edited 01-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 To be honest Babra I dont really see how taking away crews weapons would really help you in this situation. My recomendations in this situation would be to hold fire to the last minute and them wipe them out. They are worth much more to the enemy alive than dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Forever Babra: My list of opponents never to play again is growing too long. In my latest frustration, though outnumbered over 10:1 (really), my opponent still thought a mass "crew rush" a suitable tactic. Not surprisingly, the last of my precious ammo was expended in the subsequent slaughter. It really takes the fun out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You did not ans this in the chat Babs ; Did you by any chance at all lose the battle? ------------------ From the jshandorf "Why don't we compare reality to the game like Bastables likes to do all the time?" Mr T's reply "Don't touch me FOO!" (BilgeRat) synopsis= "Im a dickhead" [This message has been edited by Bastables (edited 01-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 2, 2001 Author Share Posted January 2, 2001 The fight took place in heavy woods. Because of the close range, ammo expenditure was high. If I could have hit them at a distance, they would have broken rather than close. But I see your point. Weapons or not, the tactic would remain unchanged. EDIT: Yes, Bast I lost I was going to lose anyway, but I still had a trick or two up my sleeve. I was enjoying the (one-sided) scenario immensely up to that point. ------------------ Is "patheti-sad" a word? [This message has been edited by Forever Babra (edited 01-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 This is shoulda woulda coulda time is it babs? Mace OK, I did it Bastables! happy? Now where's that money you promised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M18 Hellcat Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 I find a crew rush a very suitable tactic. I think that crews are underarmed. I love rushing people with lots of my tank crews. I expect my soldiers to fight wheter or not they still have their tank strapped on. Please give tank crews better guns. Maybe some smgs and hmgs and some better rifles. Maybe even make them snipers once they lose their tanks. I once again state I love crews they are insta-infantry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M18 Hellcat: I find a crew rush a very suitable tactic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Unfortunately not very realistic - *ticks M18 Hellcat off list of potential PBEM partners.* Barbara, that is what you get for venturing out of the Peng Thread to find new meat! ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenaelin Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 It is maybe realistic to have few bazookas or panzerscreks in tank. Crews could be used as half -squad and TC is squad leader (if he is alive), so they could ambush some tanks. I think how scared and dazed tank crews are is strictly relative to their experience. And fanatic tank crews could be still fiercy fighters with anti-tank weapons or with any weapons, even when their tank is abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Unfortunately not very realistic - *ticks M18 Hellcat off list of potential PBEM partners.* Barbara, that is what you get for venturing out of the Peng Thread to find new meat! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh been getting people to gang up on Babs the poor bugger, we'll leave him alone now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quenaelin: It is maybe realistic to have few bazookas or panzerscreks in tank. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No it isn't. Try to picture this: You sit in a steel body that is a Sherman. A crash, hot metal splashing around in it. Your best mate Dave has had a 88mm going through his abdomen, smattering his guts through the turret (at least that was fast). The gunner Mike (not that you ever liked him) is screaming his lungs out, because he just lost a leg. In about five seconds the scrap metal hulk that was your tank will be a blazing inferno. You bail out, trying to rescue Mike, but you don't manage. The tank is now burning and you have to leave him, praying that the ammo starts cooking off soon, to finish him. His screams will probably stay with you for the rest of your life, when you wake up at night, wondering how you made it. You now are being machine-gunned by the nice Jerries in the Tiger over there that just put the round through your tank. Let's throw in some mortar rounds and small arms fire for good measure, and aren't those Grenadiers awfully close? Along the line you see a few more of your mates' tanks blazing away (Sh*t - wasn't that Vinnie's tank over there? Did he make it?), and the remnants of their crews dodging bullets trying to get into cover. Occasionally one falls and you know he won't ever get up again. You survived this - now do you feel lucky and want to go off stalking the Tiger, or taking your chances with the PBI when you have a perfect excuse to return to the laager to pick up a new tank on the double? Well do you? Hope that was not too graphic for the FPS crowd. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: No it isn't. Try to picture this: <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not all crews are badly wounded or scared ****less, many times they are full strength. I think I remember there were several cases where the crew decided to risk it, and succesfully used whatever AT weapon they had brought along. Not saying it was common though, and if it was allowed in CM, it would become the norm. So not allowing crew heroics is the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenaelin Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 I don't mean so dramatic hit, just track hit or machine broke off, so you have to abandon tank and then you could be fighting again. I don't think experienced tank crews aren't very claustrophobic and I think german units in later war where used to get some hits in their tanks (becouse they had so thick, not easily pierced armor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Jarmo - I agree, on both counts. The other thing many people here forget is that being an elite/crack tanker means that you are certainly not elite infantry (and no, that does not work the other way round). It means that you got some basic infantry training way back, but spent enough time in a tank to achieve your skills. You are more likely than not a very poor infantryman, because you lack all the basic skills that the PBI acquires on the battlefield (them not being protected by steel). Think about comparing a 100m sprinter and a Tour de France participant. Both are athletes, and have to be fit, but if you asked either to do the job of the other guy on a moment's notice they would not do well at all. Tankers are not infantryman beyond basic training. The naivety of some people on the board is amazing. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: No it isn't. Try to picture this: You sit in a steel body that is a Sherman. A crash, hot metal splashing around in it. Your best mate Dave has had a 88mm going through his abdomen, smattering his guts through the turret (at least that was fast). The gunner Mike (not that you ever liked him) is screaming his lungs out, because he just lost a leg. In about five seconds the scrap metal hulk that was your tank will be a blazing inferno. You bail out, trying to rescue Mike, but you don't manage. The tank is now burning and you have to leave him, praying that the ammo starts cooking off soon, to finish him. His screams will probably stay with you for the rest of your life, when you wake up at night, wondering how you made it. You now are being machine-gunned by the nice Jerries in the Tiger over there that just put the round through your tank. Let's throw in some mortar rounds and small arms fire for good measure, and aren't those Grenadiers awfully close? Along the line you see a few more of your mates' tanks blazing away (Sh*t - wasn't that Vinnie's tank over there? Did he make it?), and the remnants of their crews dodging bullets trying to get into cover. Occasionally one falls and you know he won't ever get up again. You survived this - now do you feel lucky and want to go off stalking the Tiger, or taking your chances with the PBI when you have a perfect excuse to return to the laager to pick up a new tank on the double? Well do you? Hope that was not too graphic for the FPS crowd. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But you could do it in ASL Bit like horses really ------------------ From the jshandorf "Why don't we compare reality to the game like Bastables likes to do all the time?" Mr T's reply "Don't touch me FOO!" (BilgeRat) synopsis= "Im a dickhead" [This message has been edited by Bastables (edited 01-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bastables: But you could do it in ASL Bit like horses really <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> BTS, please give horses and bicycles to all tank crews. Or somefink. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacky Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Any game or simulation which boasts of loose or small units generally entails gamey tactics (by certain players). I often seen Zooks, Piats, and Shrek teams running point or doing a wide flank scouting maneuver. Not what I consider historical, unless the AT team is actively hunting a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bastables: But you could do it in ASL Bit like horses really <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Basti (may I call you BastI?) you are so right! Thank you ever so much for showing me the error of my ways. Of course not ever having played ASL I lack the supreme insight given to all those who studied the manual in intricate detail, while I wasted my time reading actual historic works. My what a moron I am... Actually, I have a picture of my grandfather being harnessed into the predecessor to the 75mm IG (will post it in a couple of days). Now I wonder why they did it this way, if German Überhorses would cooly draw guns under fire? Obviously the Wehrmacht training manual would have benefited from inclusion of the ASL game rules. Stupid German army. And yes of course, all tankers are just infantry half-squads tearing at the leash, waiting to see their tanks get knocked out so that they have the opportunity to get up close and personal with the enemy. If it was in ASL... ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Basti (may I call you BastI?) you are so right!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ouch! My sarcasm indicator just exploded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenaelin Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 This is leading nowhere my point was that tank crews should be left as they are in CM and definetly not disarming them. But VP calculation should also notice value of tank crews. And if tank crew is still alive in the end of the game, you could get more points becouse they managed stay alive, so these kind of "misused" tactics couldn't be usefull anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Ouch! My sarcasm indicator just exploded. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah - 'Do a search' BastI (as we like to call him in the Peng thread) is just one of these guys who could not do research if you hit them over the head with a scholarly work. I know for a fact he has his posts typed for him by a Makak He is also very slow on the attack, almost but not quite as slow as I am in returning my turns to him. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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