Piat vs Bazooka vs Panzershrk

[Horncastle]

1) Historically which was the most effective anti-tank weapon i.e. range, reliability, speed of reload, accuracy, weight

2) In CM which is the best in peoples opinions

Cheers

[Warmaker]

The Germans wanted their own "bazooka" when one was captured from the Americans during Torch I believe and wanted to improve upon it. I'm not sure on their ranges but it did have a larger diameter and better penetration values but did have a nasty blast. That's why you'll see many Panzerschrecks have those shields. I've played a little with the bazooka for practice against Panzers and the Big Cats. Effective enough but frontal attacks against Panthers and such are still problematic so flank and rear are still key of course. Still, the bazooka is a much needed US infantry weapon as to the Germans who had Panzerschrecks and Panzerfausts up the ying yang. You can thank the Red Army for this "fondness" of infantry held Anti-tank weaponry by the Germans.

I've never really played the Commonwealth much so can't pass judgement on the Piat but on receiving shots from them I personally don't fear them as much as the bazooka.

IMO the Panzerschreck is the best. Also the Germans have lotsa Panzerfausts. But no matter what in a proper situation any of the anti-tank weapons will do wonders for you.

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"Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima

[Guest MantaRay]

As I have never fired a Schrek or Faust, I can't say in real world terms.

But in CM, I wish when playing the Allies, I could wrestle some of the Schreks from the Germans.

Strangly enough, I get more brew ups from Schreks than with Zooks, but it seems as though the zook hits more often for me, just doesnt kill as well.

Piats are ok, but I would pick everything over it.

Ray

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[Jarmo]

If you wan't to know what the design team thought, just look at the prices.

Schreck is way superior to the others.

The only one you can rely to kill the opposing tanks frontally.

Piat is the worst, least accurate and least effective.

But it has the virtue of being hard to spot.

Forgot to add the angle. Since the prices are meant to give balance

you get just about as effective AT capability for any given cost,

no matter wich ones you buy.

[This message has been edited by Jarmo (edited 01-18-2001).]

[Mr. Hankey]

Info from the Dogs' of war homepage:

Blast

zook 60mm 83m/sec 6

piat 77mm 100m/sec 4

shrek 88mm 100m/sec 10

I recently had a 18m side shot on a Tiger with a zook. The Tiger bounced 3 shells off it's side, until it noticed the gentle tapping, or rapping on it's chamber door. It was somewhat hilarious, (in a macabe sense) to watch that huge gun pointing down at the hapless zook guy. Then, to hear that huge HV gun firing, see the barrel recoiling, watch the zook guy evaporating.

[Mr. Hankey]

The blast is the number at the end of the string. Damned word wrap.

[Jeff Heidman]

The reason that Schrecks have that huge shield is that the rocket (unlike the bazooka) propellant was still burning after it left the tube.

In a bazooka, the propellant has burned out by the time the round left the tube.

But the schreck was the superior weapon, no question about it.

Thie nice thing about Piats is that they can safely be used inside a building.

Does CM model the different versions of the bazooka, or do they assume all of them are the latest model?

Jeff Heidman

[JediJobu]

I killed a Sherman tank (76mm i think) with a Scheck 2 nights ago at range of 201m with a frontal hit on the first shot.... I think that says it all.

[Epée]

Panzerschreck & Panzerfaust = Excellent

Zook = Good

PIAT = OK

Epée

[Gremlin]

You can find some very detailed info on the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck here.

Here's what Seargent M.C. Thornton, who took part in the attack on Pegasus Bridge at the beginning of the D-Day invasion, said of the PIAT, with which he scored a hit on a Pz IV, blocking a major intersection used by the Germans:

"The PIAT is a load of rubbish, really."

From Stephen Ambrose's Pegasus Bridge: June 6, 1944, p. 117

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I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.

--Eisenhower

[This message has been edited by Gremlin (edited 01-18-2001).]

[goodwood]

funny thing about all these weapons that no one has mentioned yet. When you use them they never hit the target.

When someone else uses them, they never miss. Murphy's law of weapons anti-tank

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Horncastle:

2) In CM which is the best in peoples opinions<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO, Zooks are better than Piats or Shrecks for two reasons:

1) Normal load is 8 rounds, Shreck is 5 and Piat is 6

2) Zook teams can run farther without tiring, a big plus when you need to sprint from cover to cover and still be able to support the grunts

[Schugger]

I have to say that I do like those Piats in CM. They come very cheap at 12 points if you buy a British Rifle Company and - as they are included in any British squat - you've plenty of them.

Their penetration power compared to Panzerschrecks which can go through any allied armour is a joke ( Yes Kingfish, I know that they're good enough to kill my Mark IVs ), but they seem to be much harder to spot than Bazookas or Schrecks, which increases their survivability to some degree.

Zooks or Schrecks are one-shot weapons for me:

Just highlight the unit when it is going to fire and watch all those bright yellow lines appear just after the rocket has left the tube - suppression and subsequent kill of your AT unit is just a matter of seconds.

One other aspect which makes the Piat my favorite over it's counterparts is their ability to be fired from buildings without self suppressing from the backblast or, in the worst case, setting the building on fire.

Forget about these expensive one-shot weapons which also act like Kamikaze flamethrowers, only buy British hardware. Even their inaccuracy may be an advantage: if they do not hit their assigned target they may hit something else in a 50 yard diameter ( IIRC standard drill was that they closed their eyes before pulling the trigger ).

BTW Kingfish, did my turn come through or has it been lost in the void again?