Speedbump Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 At the risk of getting booed off the forum, I would like to point out a small problem. Like many readers of the forum, I tend to lurk far more than I participate. One of the reasons for this is that I sense an undercurrent to this forum. Often times if a "Junior Member" of the forum asks (in my opinion) a valid question, an immediate response is that they should have searched the history. However, with over 170,000 posts, many subjects return far too many hits to easily use. As a result, some are gunshy in asking questions. One of the reasons for my enjoyment of the game and especially this forum is the wealth of knowledge and experience that members in this forum. I would hate to think, however, that unless you are a charter member, your opinions don't matter as much. Disclaimer: I don't claim this happens every time, nor from everyone who participates, but it is common enough for me to notice. My $.02 Speedbump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jock Abroad Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 I feel compelled to write something, but I don't know what to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 ahhh, the undertow... ya i thought the same way also but then i got over it and just started posting anyway..... but i did notice that most of these "valid questions" can be answered by just doing a little detective work... it aint that hard to narrow your search... kin o like the recent posts.. help me help me the tac ai wont do all the work i have to think and plan i cant do that please make commands so i dont have to think! anyhow get over it do a search go back in the posts hell my default shows the last couple o days and i got like 16 pages of posts... ------------------ Berlin calling, Berlin calling, when Berlin calls it pays to listen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Well, if you had done a SEARCH, you would have realized that this has come up COUNTLESS times on the board. Jeez. In all seriousness, I do think that searching is a good thing (preventing wasteful thread usage). However, there is nothing to prevent someone from answering the question once it has been asked. The most polite thing to do is to answer the question and suggest a search for more information, or actually provide the reference threads themselves. -Andrew ------------------ "No, it's not that kind of relationship. We're just friends. We are together all the time, but I never touch her porcelain skin, her soft, red lips, like rose petals from the emperor's bathwater! Bathwater, I tell you, bathwateeeeeeer!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 On the other hand, it gets annoying when a newbie repeated starts discussions about things which have been done to death and demands fundamental changes in the game. Note that this happens once a week. Treat the BBS like a bar. You don't just stroll into one hooting and hollaring about their horrid prices and seedy crowd. You find a spot, sit down, and watch the scene until you are qualified to bitch. WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Speedbump: At the risk of getting booed off the forum, I would like to point out a small problem. Like many readers of the forum, I tend to lurk far more than I participate. One of the reasons for this is that I sense an undercurrent to this forum. Often times if a "Junior Member" of the forum asks (in my opinion) a valid question, an immediate response is that they should have searched the history. However, with over 170,000 posts, many subjects return far too many hits to easily use. As a result, some are gunshy in asking questions. One of the reasons for my enjoyment of the game and especially this forum is the wealth of knowledge and experience that members in this forum. I would hate to think, however, that unless you are a charter member, your opinions don't matter as much. Disclaimer: I don't claim this happens every time, nor from everyone who participates, but it is common enough for me to notice. It is sad but you see this on pretty much every board. For some reason the "old timers" seem to think once they have seen a question, it should never be asked again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Why care what people on this forum think of your asking questions? If they don't like your question, they can skip to a different topic, and if you don't like their response to your question, ignore them. It's not like anyone can do anything to you as long as you don't let your feelings get hurt. Ask what you want and forget the ones who blast you for not doing a search. As for people being "members", that only reflects on how many times they post to this forum, not how much they know. If you want to you could be a member in one day if you talk enough. Use the forum for what it's supposed to be used for. To communicate your ideas and hear what others have to say. Stay within the rule of the forum and you'll be alright. ------------------ Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedbump Posted January 23, 2001 Author Share Posted January 23, 2001 Mirage2K: Excellent point, I forgot to distinguish between the replies that answer the game and add a link vs. the just go search response. Maybe an example is in order, the other day I started a PBEM game that gave my Comets as tanks. Never having used these units before, I was curious to know how good/bad they were. I did a search and got back 2 or 3 pages of links, none of which directly answered my question. It is this situation that I am referring to. If I posted, I would guess that someone would point to the fact that there is 2 or 3 pages of reference material that I should have reviewed first. I am sure the fear is that if I posted a question without research, the Peng thread(s) would be pushed to the 2nd page of the forum, not to reemerge for at least an hour or so! Speedbump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedbump Posted January 23, 2001 Author Share Posted January 23, 2001 One final point and I will shutup. I am clearly making the distinction between demands for changes to the game engine and questions on tactics, units etc. I have lurked on this board for 2 weeks before I posted once. I fully understand the inability to change CM1...and frankly agree that I want CM2 out as soon as possible. Speedbump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by CavScout: It is sad but you see this on pretty much every board. For some reason the "old timers" seem to think once they have seen a question, it should never be asked again. I think what happens though is that a few questions get asked over and over, and indeed a new search could have solved it, but I also think that the tone begets the response often. For example: "A Sherman killed my Tiger. I saw a cartoon that said this was impossible. BTS are you going to fix this flaw?" Now each week we have one of these from a newbie, and another fron an oldtimer. Never is offered even a conjecture as to why the change should be made. Instead: "I read the Tiger was invilnerable to the 75mm from the front, but one of mine was just killed by one. Was the 75mm more powerful than rumor had it?" Difference is: lets discuss the 75mm on later, change the game now for no good reason on the later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Dogface: help me help me the tac ai wont do all the work i have to think and plan i cant do that please make commands so i dont have to think! LOL! Yeah I notice that too, and not just from the newbies. Maybe BTS should program in a new command: WIN. You could hit that and go directly to a debrief page which would tell you what a great übercommander you are. Every time you hit it you would get awarded a brand new medal. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Speedbump: One final point and I will shutup. I am clearly making the distinction between demands for changes to the game engine and questions on tactics, units etc. It should be noted that there is another resource for discussing tactics, though it does come up a lot here. But the Tips and Techniques forum is completely devoted to such matters and is sadly underpopulated most of the time. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Hedges Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 I think more commonly (although not always, true), people ask for searches not in response to straightforward, simple questions that can be answered in a sentence, but in response to more theoretical questions that it would probably waste time to rehash. Such as a question about whether German optics perhaps were superior. Unfortunately, sometimes simple questions *look* like theoretical questions: for example, a new player might hypothetically ask why the panther's turret rotated so slowly - perhaps not realizing that the game models turret speeds - and be sent off to "do a search" by someone who thought that the person was asking for a justification of the particular Panther turret speed modeled in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elementalwarre Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 perhaps battlefront could set up a FAQ forum where only BTS can post but anyone can search? perhaps each question/answer could be a different post so people can search on subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Sadly, some people really do pay attention to the meaningless "seniority" on the board. That junior member your scoffing at may be an 80 year old WWII vet! Unlikely? Sure. Impossible? Everyones got to be a jr sometime. If you don't think they do, just do a little searching yourself. You'll see that jr's are more often to be "set straight" and told to do a search by the members (this very post is a PERFECT example). It seems people on this board take me much more seriously now that Im a member. I get away with stuff that would have had me flamed as a junior. /rant off To be very honest, has anybody ever thought that people don't want to search because it sometimes takes WAY TOO LONG? Even when I had DSL, a search, even a specific one like "differnce between 76mm and 17 pounder" could sometime take awhile. It's sometimes easier to ask a simple question, because the posts are replied to very promptly on this board. [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 01-23-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailz Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by wwb_99: On the other hand, it gets annoying when a newbie repeated starts discussions about things which have been done to death and demands fundamental changes in the game. Note that this happens once a week. Treat the BBS like a bar. You don't just stroll into one hooting and hollaring about their horrid prices and seedy crowd. You find a spot, sit down, and watch the scene until you are qualified to bitch. WWB And exactly what 'qualifies' someone to bitch... 'Treat it like a bar'?? guess it depends if you're going to a Starbuck's or a real bar as far as the hooting and hollering go. If you've got the demo or the game, or an interest... you're qualified. Considering the megs of stupid tripe and bandwidth taken up by a lot of threads here, someone asking for info or help (searched or not) is ok in my books... the good folks will offer help/advice, and the slack jawed, hairy palm crowd, will jump up and down screaming for a 'search'. (which is curious, because they could easily avoid the nuisance of a help thread by reading the subject line... guess they're just gluttons for punishment! ) Ask away Speedbump... (though you must've noticed the Grognard forum is rather more sedate than this place.) Tailz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkmek Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Just a post to get rid of that dreaded "junior" status so that I might be as well-respected here as the others. I agree with tailz, all questions should be appreciated. I also liked the bar analogy, and I have lurked and learned answers to more questions here than I ever thought of asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by tailz: And exactly what 'qualifies' someone to bitch... 'Treat it like a bar'?? guess it depends if you're going to a Starbuck's or a real bar as far as the hooting and hollering go. If you've got the demo or the game, or an interest... you're qualified. Considering the megs of stupid tripe and bandwidth taken up by a lot of threads here, someone asking for info or help (searched or not) is ok in my books... the good folks will offer help/advice, and the slack jawed, hairy palm crowd, will jump up and down screaming for a 'search'. (which is curious, because they could easily avoid the nuisance of a help thread by reading the subject line... guess they're just gluttons for punishment! ) Ask away Speedbump... (though you must've noticed the Grognard forum is rather more sedate than this place.) Tailz My post did not refer to asking for help or information. It is reffering to those who say, "My Tiger got killed by an american tank! This game is unrealistic!" etc. These posts are amusing for a while but quickly become innane. Oftentimes I quickly, cleanly and competently answer a newbie's question myself. I have never, ever told anyone to 'do a search.' Finally, that post was mainly directed a certain individual who just began posting yesterday and will likely not be seen again on this board. WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Sometimes the search feature works amazingly well. Sometimes it can be very aggravating. What I would suggest for newcomers is to ask yes or no questions whenever possible and avoid terms like "bug", "unrealistic", "fix", etc.. If you have a "how" or "why" question you are possibly seeking a lengthy explanation that has been gone over many times before. It takes time to post long answers. Diligent searching is in order in this case before posing the question to the forum. Also, be sure you have read the manual and the various FAQs that pop up. Do a search for FAQs!! As for the old timers, ignore the newbie questions if you are the impatient type. Someone who feels more like helping a newbie will answer his question soon. Don't answer if you are ONLY going to tell the newbie to search. It comes across to the newbie in a negative way (as probably intended) and really doesn't do the community as a whole or BTS any good. Treeburst155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Searching is good to find threads, but it is very difficuot to find specific messages. For example, if someone says that Soandso has posted a detailed explanation of why the Tiger's wheels are overlapped, and this is in a thread with 10 pages, it could take a long while to find the specific posting. When one does a search on a person, the whole thread where that person is found appears. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by Treeburst155: Sometimes the search feature works amazingly well. Sometimes it can be very aggravating. What I would suggest for newcomers is to ask yes or no questions whenever possible and avoid terms like "bug", "unrealistic", "fix", etc.. If you have a "how" or "why" question you are possibly seeking a lengthy explanation that has been gone over many times before. It takes time to post long answers. Diligent searching is in order in this case before posing the question to the forum. Also, be sure you have read the manual and the various FAQs that pop up. Do a search for FAQs!! As for the old timers, ignore the newbie questions if you are the impatient type. Someone who feels more like helping a newbie will answer his question soon. Don't answer if you are ONLY going to tell the newbie to search. It comes across to the newbie in a negative way (as probably intended) and really doesn't do the community as a whole or BTS any good. Treeburst155 I like to give an answer and then tell them to do a search for the bigger aspects. Telling someone to do a search is useful because they may not even be aware it is possible, and it will be helpful for them in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedbump Posted January 24, 2001 Author Share Posted January 24, 2001 Thank you everyone. Truth is, i was probably in a bad mood after losing both my SP Artillery pieces on the first turn of a PBEM when I discovered that hill in the dead center of the map was just inside my opponents setup zone. Damn Panther just parked there! I realize that the great majority of Forum members truly act in the community spirit. That is why I lurk here. Speedbump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I catch myself getting into a bad mood when my PBEM games take a turn for the worse. Isn't that absolutely ridiculous! I have to consciously calm down sometimes. It's a great game. treeburst155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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