OK PATCH UPDATE PLEASE!!!

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FutbolHead:

I see it as reasonably understandable that people want a product to be fixed and in proper working order. I think this post lacks all sense of proportion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My irony meter just broke... (apologies to whoever came up with that one first). What exactly is not in proper working order and needs such desperate fixing that someone would have to have it this weekend? Talk about perspective.

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Andreas

[Mostro]

Well I'm STILL waiting for my PREORDERED copy, so your "desperation" makes me laugh-cry

Shut up you lucky guys!!!!

A really desperate man

[Flipper]

beta tester's ARE the general public

[Zamo]

I have to agree with Michael about the patch. What is it you people want patched? This product is the least buggy piece of code I have shelled cash out for in years. Are any of you suffering crashes? All the glitches I've read about so far are completely inconsequential. I would much rather see Steve and Charles spend their time doing the coding and textures for CM2 than on any silly patch for CM. Further more, what I think people here are mostly looking forward to in the patch is not really any "patching", of the game but more of the "enhancing" that BTS did with the 1.01 patch. Am I wrong? Are you really worried that something isn't modelled correctly, or that the program is buggy? Or are you eagerly awaiting that next new little tid-bit of a surprise from Charles' gracious fingertips? I'm not trying to come down on anybody, I want it too, but...patience is a virtue.

Zamo

[Joe Shaw]

Exactly Andreas, you and I (as an example) just finished a great PBEM game spanning many turns and while some events could use some additional scrutiny (your winning come to mind immediately)it seemed to go very smoothly and accurately by my reckoning. The same can be said for the other dozen or so PBEM games I've played since the game came out.

Now I'll admit that I got anxious before I got the game, but those of us who have it surely have one of the least buggy and most carefully designed games ever made. To suggest that CM is "... a product to be fixed..." and one that is NOT "...in proper working order ..." flies in the face of all the posts I've seen and my personal experience.

1.03 is going to be a nice enhancement to a great game, nothing more than that. And as long as you have the game itself your weekend will not be adversely affected, IMO.

Joe

[MadDog0606]

I'm having a hard time understanding why some people are clamoring for patch 1.03. I've been playing these addictive computer games for years. To me a patch for a game is for fixing something that was broke on release or to put something into a game that was promised by the developers of the game (TCP/IP was NOT promised for the initial release of the game). The first patch, 1.01, fixed problems that were found either just before or a little after the game went to duplication. As far as I know Steve and Charles delivered on their promise to give me a game that I could enjoy for hours on end, get my little tushing kicked by the AI sometimes, and all this without CTD's.

Now, as far has I know, the only thing missing in this GREAT GAME (I've been waiting for a game like this for years) is TCP/IP (and that is not going to be part of 1.03), and there is always PBEM. Everything else Steve and Charles do to this game is icing on the cake. To me patch 1.03 isn't really a patch, it's just an enhancement to a GREAT game.

Now, if I get flamed for this next part, no big deal, I've had worse done to me. QUIT YOUR BITCHIN FOR PATCH 1.03 AND PLAY THE DAMN GAME!!!

[Guest Germanboy]

Joe, I could not agree more, except for the fact that I need a patch that guarantees for me to win in Cavalry games against Ethan. I want it here, and I want it now. And if I don't get it before the weekend, I will proclaim that CM is buggy and badly coded and go to sulk with my blanky. So there.

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Andreas

[CRourke]

It is a little bit amusing to see so many posts clamoring for the next patch, but no one really seems to be claiming about the critical fixes that "must" be made in it. Why? Because there just aren't that many big flaws. IMHO Charles made a big mistake here. He should have released a game that was up to industry standards, ie full of bugs. Since that doesn't seem to be in his nature, he should have intentionally created a number of bugs just before release. He could write patches in advance to fix these. Then he could have kept us happy for months releasing patches to fix these "bugs".

Chris

ps in all honesty, I'm kind of annoyed by the foxhole in pine forest exposure bug.. I'll be glad to see that one squashed.

[Guest Germanboy]

Hmm, looks like 'The Fanatical Batallions of Fact' have taken over this thread too. A hearty welcome to our heroes.

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Andreas

[Kestrl]

I just want CM to be perfect before i begin any PBEM games because there might some bugs that would give the attacker or defender a unfair advantage. I know there is a bug when you have infantry in pines hiding in foxholes its like there in open ground and can be spotted easy.

[kverdon]

BTS made a small Fubar from the support arena when they released the second shipment of CD's with 1.02. This was compounded when they then made the statement they would not be making a 1.02 patch but including the 1.02 patch in the 1.03 patch. This is then followed by a lack of information on 1.03. I can see their reason for doing this, it had mostly to do with the overwhelming demand for the game causing a hasty second printing. The release code at the time of the second printing was 1.02 so that is what they had to ship. It probably would have been better if the second batch had gone out as 1.01 and 1.03 had been kept secret. The marketing problem with this is that there is a perceived, if not real, deisre for the owners of 1.01 to have the latest and greatest. (ie, if 1.01 is perfect, why is there a 1.03?) If also causes some confusion for example I was under the impression that 1.01 and 1.02 were not email compatible. This situation has been compounded by the fact the either Steve or Charles has been on a well deserved vacation and thus information upon the features and status of 1.03 have been non-existent. A little more information from BTS on what is going on with 1.03 in regards as to what is being worked on and when they think it might be out would, IMHO, help keep people chomping at the bit somewhat happier.

thats it,

Kevin

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kestrl:

I just want CM to be perfect <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, short reality check please. There is no perfect code. There will always be some quibble. And putting the pressure on Charles is not going to make it come faster or come in better quality. This foxhole bug has affected one out of probably 30 PBEMs I have done. So you can as well start playing now. If you are afraid that it ruins a canned scenario, you can do quick battles. Much better for PBEM anyway, because of the balance.

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Andreas

[Cardinal Fang]

Zamo said

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have to agree with Michael about the patch. What is it you people want

patched? This product is the least buggy piece of code I have shelled cash out

for in years. Are any of you suffering crashes? All the glitches I've read about so

far are completely inconsequential. I would much rather see Steve and Charles

spend their time doing the coding and textures for CM2 than on any silly patch

for CM. Further more, what I think people here are mostly looking forward to in

the patch is not really any "patching", of the game but more of the "enhancing"

that BTS did with the 1.01 patch. Am I wrong? Are you really worried that

something isn't modelled correctly, or that the program is buggy? Or are you

eagerly awaiting that next new little tid-bit of a surprise from Charles' gracious

fingertips? I'm not trying to come down on anybody, I want it too,

but...patience is a virtue.

Zamo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a quick point. Some of us ARE experiencing crashes. Myself included. The posts regarding crashes are generally in the TECH forum. Fortunately they don't seem to be common but they are occuring. In order for me to get the game to work I had to disable 3D sound and turn off the weather. This is with a AMD K6-2 500 with 64 MB RAM and a Voodoo 3 2000 video card. I have all the latest drivers and it took me forever to come up with a way to make it work. This is not to slam BTS in anyway. CM is a great piece of work. If it wasn't I wouldn't have jumped through the hoops I had to in order to get it to run. I'm also sure that it's crashing on far less machines than most other commercially available games. I just happened to be unlucky. So to recap yes it's a great wonderful game but there are people who are having crashes.

Okay so maybe that wasn't such a quick point.

CardinalFang

Nobody Expects The Spanish Inquisition!

[Kestrl]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Uh, short reality check please. There is no perfect code. There will always be some quibble. And putting the pressure on Charles is not going to make it come faster or come in better quality. This foxhole bug has affected one out of probably 30 PBEMs I have done. So you can as well start playing now. If you are afraid that it ruins a canned scenario, you can do quick battles. Much better for PBEM anyway, because of the balance.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, I know there is not a perfect code and i was thinking someone is going to post about me saying i something about perfect, but i decided not to change it. I don't like the foxhole bug because why use pines if your infantry or anti-tank guns can be spotted so easy when hiding in pines, its a waste of my time to play a PBEM game if my units can be spotted in foxholes in pines across the battlefield. I think me posting about 1.03 is putting pressure on anyone and i didn't start this thread i just posted some replys.

I also don't like that i can't embark a 57mm RCL team into a jeep or halftrack because they are facing backwards and riding on the hood of the jeep. Those are the only things that i want to see fixed.

[Zamo]

Sorry Cardinal, I should have considered the fact that there are different areas for posting tech support. What kind of Audio card did you yank? What kind of Motherboard do you have? I have a AMD K6-II 500 with 128 megs and a Diamond Viper 770 on an FIC M/B and have had ZERO crashes with it. I'll go over and do a quick check and see. Hope you got it fixed.

Zamo

[Kingfish]

Pardon me if i'm wrong, but isn't the 'Ops ending too quickly' problem one of the things the 1.03 patch is suppose to address?

Not that i'm screaming for it, when it shows it shows, just looking for a little clarification.

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The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive

[Elmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zamo:

<snip>

I have a AMD K6-II 500 with 128 megs and a Diamond Viper 770 on an FIC M/B and have had ZERO crashes with it. I'll go over and do a quick check and see. Hope you got it fixed.

Zamo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Zamo

Does fog work with your Viper 770? I haven't read of anyone with a Diamond card seeing fog effects. Thanks.

Elmo

[Guest Germanboy]

Kestrl,

I just checked, and I can assure you that the particular Pine Tree bug has not affected a single one of my PBEM games. Regarding embarkation of 57mm RCLs, you can do it, and they are passengers, but it looks as if the graphics representation is buggy. Don't think it affects gtame-play at all. If you do not play PBEM b/c of these two minor bugs, you are denying yourself the best part of that game. Neither of these has materially affected game-play for me at all, in fact, until you mentioned them, I did not even know about them.

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Andreas

[FutbolHead]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

My irony meter just broke... (apologies to whoever came up with that one first). What exactly is not in proper working order and needs such desperate fixing that someone would have to have it this weekend? Talk about perspective.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't help you with your "irony meter", but I am talking about perspective. The original post I responded to suggested people were hailing the next patch as a divine event, which is totally off base. Additionally, I never mentioned anything about me being personnally "desperate" for the patch. I look at it from a consumer's point a view, regardless of whether it just a recreational product, in that as a consumer, people expect things they pay for to work properly. Several people have reported problems which indicates the product does not function properly. I believe that perspective is totally within reason. Additionally, they want repairs done in a timely matter, some more patient, some less. These factors can drive a market, and like it or not, BTS as a business has to be concerned in part with customer satisfaction. So, Germanboy, where am I lacking in "perspective"?

I know some great "irony meter" repair people if you need a referral.

[Guest Germanboy]

Well Futbolhead, I guess we just don't agree on that CM is:

a) broken in a way that needs fixing

that these supposedly needed fixes take unreasonably long.

Obviously all the other software you ever bought must have worked like a dream if you think that CM is a product in need of repair. And if, lo-and-behold, something was not in order, the producers would fix it in no time at all. Good for you. And that is what I meant by perspective. Have a look around other games and tell me that CM in comparison to them needs fixing because it is broken. And in your post you were supporting people who clamour for the patch to come before the weekend.

To me Patch 1.03 will deliver improvements. I am perfectly happy with the product as is. I look forward to whatever improvements will come, but I don't feel a desperate need for any of them.

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Andreas

[Talenn]

I'm sure many of you are not big RTS fans, but some of us have been waiting on a patch for Age of Empire 2 for almost a YEAR now. It was promised back in January and its still not here. This is from a major publisher, for a game that sold over 2 million copies.

Its not for small issues either. There are a fair amount of bugs and a few HORRIBLE balance issues that more or less ruin much of the competitive fun of the game.

Compared to THAT, I think BTS is doing a wonderful job. 1.03 looks to be more tweaks and additions than bug fixes (although there seem to a few of those as well). For me, while I want the patch as much as the next fellow, I'm just as happy to have them keep looking into things and making additions.

If I have to wait a few more weeks, but get a few of the issues myself and others have brought up dealt with, then I'm happier than if they released it today, and nothing was really changed. I'm all for tweaks and mods being offered through patches.

Besides, once 1.03 hits, people will just start making suggestions for 1.04 and the cycle will start over again! ; )

Talenn

[pritzl]

Germanyboy, sorry but I have to disagree with you. There are some things in CM that definately need to be fixed. Don't get me wrong, CM has shipped as one of the most stable and well designed pieces of software that I have seen in a very long time. That being said, there are still some bugs.

Several have already been mentioned. They include foxholes in tall pines being treated as foxholes in Open terrain (which has affected several of my games), and some graphical glitches. Further bugs are vehicels with rear facing weapons being nearly useless in combat, and a bug which permits units to act without delay. This last one is a serious concern for PBEM games.

Aside from these bugs, there are, i'm sure, numerous tweeks to correct things that, although not technically broken, don't really work as people feel they should. I don't know about you but that sounds like some things that deserve a patch and are worth looking forward to. What's wrong with people wanting certain known bugs squashed and anticipating that?

As for software never being perfect, I'm inclined to disagree there too. I've used numerous peices of software that are completely bug free. When was the last time you had a problem with Minesweeper, Solitaire, etc? Granted that these programs are not complex, but they are bug free (as far as I know ) CM is by far more complex and there will always be room for debate about design decisions, but if it works as designed it's not a bug. Right now there are still some bugs. However, Charles is, I think, an unbelievably talented programmer who is capable are squashing them all so long as we help find them.

So, I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't wait to get 1.03

[Reckall]

Actually, the one thing that makes me look forward to 1.03 is an improvement in targeting AI. I'm talking about the problems that come up when a tank lose sight of a dangerous enemy (like another tank) and almost immediatly seeks a new target among the low-threat ones - only to be roasted by the first one if it suddently regains LOS. Whoever played the Villers-Bocage scenario will have experienced this frustration (well, I did!)

Vincenzo Beretta

Milan - Italy

[Guest Bad Ju Ju]

Those who insist that CM NEEDS a patch are, IMHO, missing the mark. No game these days ships as perfect code, tuned for every conceivable machine, sound card, 3d video, etc. BTS is a small company which has put out a great product which may be IMPROVED UPON, but which stands as is as one helluva good game. Compare that to Blizzard--a huge name in the business--and the mess that was (and is) the release of Diablo II. It needed a patch (or two) out of the box, despite selling a million plus copies.

But all of this is academic, because there WILL be a great patch sometime soon and, in the meantime, just relax and enjoy this great game.

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"I didn't go to evil medical school for six years to be called MR. Evil." Dr. Evil

[kverdon]

Yes, I agree, BTS has done an amazing job with CM. One of the cleanest releases in a long time. This having been said, I guess the thing that rankles me the most is the complete silence that has followed the anouncement of the patch. There are features anounced in the patch (targeting, for example, that many people would like to see). The only official word we got was that it should have been available last week and then that since Charlie was on vacation that it would not be available over the weekend. What I don't get is that the same scenario is repeated over and over again with computer software:

Game is released

Patch is anoucned

Patch release date is anounced/estimated

Users eagerly anticipate patch.

Patch release date comes and goes

Silence on patch status follows from game company.

Users get restless

Users get angry.

What's wrong with a little comunication?. What about a simple status update?

A simple, "Its in testing, will not be out this week, will update you next Monday" would go along way in keeping people happy. Its a simple thing really but hardly any company follows thru with it. Comunication evens expectations and defuses the restless natives.

Kevin

[This message has been edited by kverdon (edited 07-26-2000).]