Oberst Angsthase Posted July 5, 2000 Share Posted July 5, 2000 Those german armored cars seem awfuly wimpy. I have on several occasions tried to use them in flanking actions to get behind the enemy, and they are inevitably lost to machine gun fire, sometimes at long range. What's more annoying is that the cars are never "knocked out" but always "abandoned". I have had better success using them like mobile infantry guns and MGs, waaaay in the rear. I will of course do whatever works best, but it doesn't seem to be very armored car-ish. The allied M20 seems to fare much better. Also I want to publically apologize to BTS for all the nasty private thoughts I had about the wooden MG bunkers. If you can eliminate the tank threat, they are excellent defensive units, especially when used in conjunction with a bit of infantry. I had one covering an approach through scattered woods. The bunker (with support) drove back an entire company with heavy loss. I still to sit there saucer-eyed and slack jawed watching as each new battle unfolds. What a great time to be alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueball Posted July 5, 2000 Share Posted July 5, 2000 Regarding the armored cars -- Keep them moving, and watch for flank shots. The American .50 can kill them from the side. The 234/1 (20mm) is quite adept at killing half-tracks other lightly armored vehicles. Because it's main armament is in effect a heavy machine gun, it can hit moving targets while it's moving better than other vehicles firing single shot weapons. The 234/2 (50mm Puma) can kill almost any tank from the side. Use it's speed to get flank shots. The 234/3 (75mm) is good for infantry support. Keep it slightly behind your infantry lines, and use it's speed to provide support where needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 5, 2000 Share Posted July 5, 2000 One thing to always keep in mind when using ACs (of any nationality) is that they were intended to be used for scouting, not fighting (excepting certain German variants). Keep them moving, speed is their only defence! If they sit in one spot more than a turn or two, you're asking for trouble. I have seen many players in other wargames mistakenly consider them as cheap armor that is relatively safe from infantry (since they are armored). As was pointed out, they can die all too easily sometimes. I have had mixed results with ACs on both sides. I think I prefer the US ACs since their weaker armament convinces me to use them more like an AC and less like a light tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberst Angsthase Posted July 5, 2000 Author Share Posted July 5, 2000 Thanks, your replies are helpful. On at least two occasions the .50 cal MGs have taken out an AC while on the move. The scouting distinction is an important one to remember. By the time we start the game the scouting phase is over. Using them from a safe distance to support infantry is probably a better use of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 5, 2000 Share Posted July 5, 2000 If I knew how to make scenarios I'd make a recon scenario with armored cars etc on each side. Then we could use them the way they were meant to be. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted July 5, 2000 Share Posted July 5, 2000 Keep them moving, and keep a tank right on their butt to cover their retreat. I use the AC as a scout, and if possible, I get them back under cover as soon as contact is made. They can react a little faster than the tanks, so they can buy you a little time to prepare a response to a (spoiled) ambush. Your tank might just sit there like an idiot trying to find out where those ricochets are coming from. While recon is assumed to have been made, you still need to pinpoint enemy positions, especially in long scenarios or operations. I've even used jeeps as scouts with some success (when I don't have AC's), but you have to be careful! AC's might get killed while moving, but they WILL get killed if they stop outside of any cover. EDIT: Added a few comments. [This message has been edited by Mannheim Tanker (edited 07-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 5, 2000 Share Posted July 5, 2000 **Possible spoiler info** <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Beman: If I knew how to make scenarios I'd make a recon scenario with armored cars etc on each side. Then we could use them the way they were meant to be. DjB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There's an operation in the full game called "A Day in the Cavalry". It's intended to illustrate a typical day in the life of US armored cav in late WWII. I've only started to play it (on the second battle as the US), but I will say it's a whole different ball game when you only have light forces to work with! So far, I'm enjoying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grunto Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oberst Angsthase: Those german armored cars seem awfuly wimpy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> indeed i was in a battle where i'd gotten a psw234/1 (20mm) 100meters behind an american t8. man that 20mm pounded and pounded the t8, but could not kill it. so in my mind the 20mm is a good heavy machinegun... use it on infantry an halftracks but you'll be gambling if you try taking out a t8 with it. the american .50 cal is great against german halftracks and spw234/x having said all that i love armored cars. i like the puma and the 234/3 with the 75mm. they're not so much whimpy as 'able to deal it out but not take it.' so keep them moving fast and look for your best shots and you'll find that armored cars are some of the most fun units to command in combat mission. there's nothing like taking out a chaffee tank with the 234/1's 20mm or taking out a panther with the american m8 greyhound's 37mm. yes armored cars and halftracks and gun carriages... who needs tanks? =g= all joking aside when you're dealing with armored cars and halftracks you really want to avoid taking any fire. andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by grunto: all joking aside when you're dealing with armored cars and halftracks you really want to avoid taking any fire. andy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But - isn't it a battlefield??? ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 /action Fionn slaps Germanboy around with a large frozen trout. /action Fionn looks at Germanboy and says " Now, that's enough out of you young lad. Listen and learn and don't make me come down here with a 0.5 cal and see if YOU can avoid bullets " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 Things haven't changed much. Try doing Recce tasks in a M113 (with .50 cal) when the threat (OPFOR) has T-72 (125mm)! As I keep telling the guys in the Sqn, "The most potent weapons we have are our eyes and our radios". ------------------ Regards, Mark:-{) Anxiously awaiting the G4 PowerBook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 wasn't there a 234/4 too? (armed with a 75mm pak) I thought I saw it somewhere in the list?? S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 what type of german armoured car had 2 driver positions? S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DesertFox Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>what type of german armoured car had 2 driver positions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> All 6 and 8 wheeled ACs had. It´s got to do with german reconnaissance doctrine. "See as much as possible without being seen" That´s why they had two driver positions and two drivers. Helge ------------------ Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/desertfox1891 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 Just had a 234/3 75mm wrecked a M10TD with a flanking shot in an hilly Quick Battle. As at been said above, I'd rather have those buggers Puma and WhirlWind than fat JagdTigers any time. Makes for some fun "Hit and Run" playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 I gave up 'buying' AC's for quick battles. Instead i byt the funky Lynx and zoom over the battlefield in that. All it is missing is a fox tail on an antenna . Grtz S Bakker ------------------ Visit my CM site! The bunker: http://bunker.panzershark.com Another proud member of the Panzershark webring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 Damn Typos ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 Well, I don't have much to add in the way of properusage since I seem to lose my Pumas rather quickly. But I do have a nit to pick. When the Pumas are CE you can see the commander and the driver. To me it looks awfully weird to have the driver's head popping out of the hull like that when his normal vision block is BEHIND his head. I've looked around and seen photos of the hatch present on the vehicle and it may in fact be an entry/egress hatch but I can't see the driver shifting his seat forward to poke his head out. Perhaps just opening that visor flap would be more appropriate. Here's a cool drawing showing the position of this hatch and the normal driver visor. [This message has been edited by RMC (edited 07-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 6, 2000 Share Posted July 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Beman: If I knew how to make scenarios I'd make a recon scenario with armored cars etc on each side. Then we could use them the way they were meant to be. DjB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm currently playing a Quick Battle I cooked up to serve just that purpose. I started with a 300 point Wehrmacht infantry force in a Probe situation. I used a medium rural map with moderate hills and trees and got a map that measures about 250X650 meters. For my American force I purchased a couple 105 Shermans, a couple M8 HMC, two M8 Greyhounds, a few T8 Recon Cars, 3 MG Jeeps, and a few M5 tanks. I also got an infantry platoon, a .30 cal machine gun, and two 60mm mortars. With the points available, I thought this was a fair approximation of a company-sized Armored Recon force. I must say, I'm having a blast. A force this lightly armored would have trouble standing up to any kind of heavy resistance, but against a lightly armed infantry delaying force their mobility and firepower are impressive. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 the cannon of the SD.Kfz.234/4 Looks impressive. Was that the same gun as on the panzer IV H/J ? (75L48) And only 12 rounds??? for example: the 234/3 had 50 rounds, a huge difference! any help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: /action Fionn slaps Germanboy around with a large frozen trout.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oooo - food fights... Hmmm, trout... So did you get my email? You can choose the trout, err, side, if you are interested and once you have time. All your requirements for PBEM gladly accepted. You get the ladder points, I get to learn something... Can do a recon scenario if you want. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 To be honest I'm playing about 8 games right now and have a backlog of just under 30 people lined up. I WILL play everyone who challenges me but it is just taking a while to get through everyone. Plus I'm having a mammoth game vs Chris Carnes ( aka Blackhorse) right now and am writing an AAR (turn by turn on it) so that's taking a lot of my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notnowjohn Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 Fionn, consider yourself challenged!( I mean that in the nicest possible way.) And Germanboy, you need to contact me if you have recieved the game. Or have you grown tired of slapping me around, hmmmmm? Notnowjohn, formerly known as Gunnerdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 I personally have fallen in love with the Diamler AC (and the Brits in General)... yeah they die easily if hit, but they are FAST, they can penetrate almost any tank from the side and rear (even got a KT in a scen that I am going to be releasing soon)... I find that a Diamler AC with a few MMG carrier escorts froms a great mobile recon and light assault force, and its nice and cheap and I've had them single handedly hold off a company of German's or even the occasional armor colomn. -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onnel Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 If you're in love with the Diamler Dingo, you should know that they can be purchased for around $15,000 in great condition or less for one needing restoring. They're great for WW2 reenacting, or simply driving around to impress the neighbours who think their SUV is so grand. Best, Onnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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