Guest MajorH Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Berets may be sexy in garrison but they are useless in the field. Without a bill, they don't keep the rain and sun out of your eyes. ------------------ Best regards, Major H majorh@mac.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 It's probably just another portent of the end times. Noone has disagreed with me on the Star Trek thing. So I must be right. Gimme a good rifle and I'll take an away team with ease I reckon PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 (Pzvg is nervous about the direction America has taken,read your history on the Roman Empire to know why) I know my Roman history and we are still on the upswing. By my calculation we are in between the 2nd Punic War (Hannibal vs. Scipio) and the Social War (Rome vs. Italian Allies). We are the world power with a constitution that was written for a planter's republic. So was Rome before Caesar. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 If you are woried about the fall of the American, um, 'Empire', then you should probably read up more on British 19th and 20th Century history over that of ancient Roman History. The Brits, unlike the Romans, knew when their time as world leader was up, and quit before the peoples they militarily/economically occupied and exploited and left marginalized sacked London. It is the natural course of history for one major empire/nation to fall and another one take its place. The fall doesn't have to be that bad, or crippling if the falling nation realizes to not go down with a major fight. America can take the Roman route of disaster (and political/social extinction), or the British route of honourable resignation (and political/social endurance). IMHO. My major fear is that in the distant future some nut in the States might get elected on the platform of making the US great again, with the popoulation little knowing his plan requires the liberal use of Atomic Weapons.. I don't think that wearing some little black deelies on your head will cause the fall to occur or other branches get so jelous they refuse to fight along side of 'those army guys'. Of course, I do see you point that black berets will be easier to spot on Satellite Radar, and they could read your mind pretty easy through those flimsily constructed things, better issue all the US troops some hats made out of Aluminum foil and wire close hangers on their tanks to stop the evil mind rays from making them vote Democrat!! Sorry about the humour, I say, just go with the flow, and enjoy the future reigned by the "Great Canadian Empire" formerly known as "Canadian's Corner". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MajorH: Berets may be sexy in garrison but they are useless in the field. Without a bill, they don't keep the rain and sun out of your eyes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Bear in mind this beret is intended to replace the "Envelope" cap. I'm not sure whether it will be for use with Class "A" and "B" uniforms only or if it will be for wear with BDUs while in garrison, much like the airborne, SF, and ranger berets are worn. The rangers and special forces when they deploy to the field don the BDU cap, complete with bill. In most other Army units, when you go the field you wear nothing but your Kevlar. You don't even bring your BDU cap for wear while on maneuvers. It is usually Kevlar 24/7, with the exception of your being able to remove it to eat, to sleep, and to do personal hygiene. As I understand it this new beret is to be a garrison headgear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chupacabra: I have the cutest postcard with a kangaroo wearing one of those darling little hats!!! He's drinking a Fosters and saying "G'day, mate!" It's adorable! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, I wont take the bait. I'm glad you like it Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Sorry, I wont take the bait. I'm glad you like it Regards Jim R.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Uh, I thought my post was fairly obviously lighthearted, and was not intended as "bait." If you took it this way, well, dunno what to say. Guess I should saturate my posts with smileys from now on. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MajorH: Berets may be sexy in garrison but they are useless in the field. Without a bill, they don't keep the rain and sun out of your eyes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> To true. I beleive, from the article, that it only replaces the Class A cap and not the normal BDU cap. Cav ------------------ "Maneuverists have a bad case of what may be called, to borrow from a sister social science, 'Wehrmact penis envy.'"--D. Bolger Co-Chairman of the CM Jihad Brigade "AS far as Steve and BTS (mostly Steve) are concerned, you are either a CM die-hard supporter, or you are dirt. If you question the game, implementation, or data models they used, you are some kind of neo-Nazi wanna-be, and become an open target for CavScout, SlippySlapDragon, and all the other sycophants who hang on Steves every word."-- Jeff Heidman [comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chupacabra: Uh, I thought my post was fairly obviously lighthearted, and was not intended as "bait." If you took it this way, well, dunno what to say. Guess I should saturate my posts with smileys from now on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey Chup, you're talking to an Aussie here....we don't take ANYTHING too seriously. I could see that you were having a minor dig & I couldn't let it rest could I. So you don't ever have to worry about upsetting me when posting on this board. Now, while playing Combat Mission, that's when I can definitely get upset! Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Just read an article at Military.com and it sounds like the beret will be the standard headgear with the BDU. there is a question about whether the Class A headgear will change also. ------------------ Nicht Schiessen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Hey Chup, you're talking to an Aussie here....we don't take ANYTHING too seriously. I could see that you were having a minor dig & I couldn't let it rest could I. So you don't ever have to worry about upsetting me when posting on this board. Now, while playing Combat Mission, that's when I can definitely get upset! Regards Jim R.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ah, good to know I'm glad that I didn't single-handedly rupture the fabric that is the traditional America-Australian friendship. After all, we have such a symbiotic relationship. You give us losers like Paul Hogan and Yahoo Serious, and we make movies about them ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by STRAKER: Its all part of the New World order military units world wide new look. Quite obvious really how they are slowly changing things. They are slowly removing items on the uniform to make people get used to the non US look. Also the US flags patches were not worn on US units operating in the gulf war. Same goes for a number of aircraft and there colours / markings. Heaps of US aircraft no longer have US AIRFORCE on them. Alot of them are going black too. The markings are being lost so to speak in history. If u dont believe me, thats ok, but watch these things and u will one day see what i mean. Its a bit odd really that one would do this to there airforce.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> All in the name of low visibility. The Navy started "low-toning" their a/c in the 80s and the AF is just following suit. I was in the US Army for 11 years (active & reserve) and never once wore a US Flag on any uniform. IIRC, it has only been used when someone (usually a civilian somewhere up in the higher chain of command) decides that eveyone needs to know the troops are Americans. Forget berets! Everone knows "dew rags" look cooler... ------------------ Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 This whole beret business is a silly attempt by the Army brass to improve the morale of the troops. Currently the number of company grade officers leaving the service are at an all time high. This probably has to do with 1) Low pay vs. private sector 2) Uncertain and long overseas deployments I personally think they should be spending more time thinking about restructering the military and changing its mission. The US military's whole structure is still based on the Cold War notion of fighting two wars simultaneously. This is an outdated and expensive philosophy. Why in the hell are we still in Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 We are still in Korea because the war isn't officially over - cease fire was the only thing declared long ago. If we left North Korea probably would invade and that peninsula would be a greater threat to Japan, Taiwan and other allies in that region. Korea offers the US a vital staging point in Asia... As far as the beret goes if I were still in and had to wear it I would feel stupid - troops go through a lot to earn the black beret (airborne), the maroon beret (ranger?) and the green beret (special forces) - might have airborne and rangers mixed up. Anyway I wouldn't feel qualified to wear it - plus it wouldn't keep the rain out of your eyes as one other put it. I think the class A and B uniforms for the army suck anyway - they need to go back to the tan uniforms from WW2! Those were sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Actually, check out those Austrian uniforms from the Napoleonic war! Jet black appart from smatterings of Silver trim, sharp! PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wwb_99: (Pzvg is nervous about the direction America has taken,read your history on the Roman Empire to know why) I know my Roman history and we are still on the upswing. By my calculation we are in between the 2nd Punic War (Hannibal vs. Scipio) and the Social War (Rome vs. Italian Allies). We are the world power with a constitution that was written for a planter's republic. So was Rome before Caesar. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> At this point, I'd say we have Commodus as our emperor. See, i.a., Gibbon for some apposite parallels. ------------------ Ethan ----------- Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Actually, I'm not against the principle per se. I rather liked being able to spot the few fellow cavalrymen in a formation at 100 yards because of the distinctive headgear. really put some esprit-de-corps and unit pride into things. Agreed though that things like base pay are rather more important to the troops! NTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu: At this point, I'd say we have Commodus as our emperor. See, i.a., Gibbon for some apposite parallels. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Clinton is nowhere near Commodus. Commodus was amoral and incompetent. Clinton is only amoral. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buddy: As far as the beret goes if I were still in and had to wear it I would feel stupid - troops go through a lot to earn the black beret (airborne), the maroon beret (ranger?) and the green beret (special forces) - might have airborne and rangers mixed up. Anyway I wouldn't feel qualified to wear it - plus it wouldn't keep the rain out of your eyes as one other put it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Other than Spec Force, there is nothing "special" to earn a beret. If you are in an Airborne unit you can wear one, from the cook to the infantry man. [This message has been edited by CavScout (edited 10-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 "If uniforms made soldiers, than battles would be fought in the boutiques of Paris". ---- N. Bonaparte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by von Lucke: "If uniforms made soldiers, than battles would be fought in the boutiques of Paris". ---- N. Bonaparte<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Good one for the "New Signature Hunt" thread! ------------------ Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machineman Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 "The Syrian army has dozens of silly hats, mostly berets in yellow, orange and shocking pink, but also tiny pillbox chapeaux, peaked officer's caps with half a foot of gold braid up the front and lumpy Russian helmets three sizes too large. The paratroopers wear shiny gold jumpsuits, and crack commando units have skin-tight fatigues in a camouflage pattern of violet, peach, flesh tone and vermillion on a background of vivid purple. This must give excellent protective coloration in, say, a room full of Palm Beach divorcees in Lily Pulitzer dresses." PJ O'Rourke from 'Holidays in Hell'. This description MAY seem far fetched, but what made me laugh was that I was there a few years ago and he isn't exaggerating very much, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CavScout: Other than Spec Force, there is nothing "special" to earn a beret. If you are in an Airborne unit you can wear one, from the cook to the infantry man.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, but even the clerks and jerks and REMFs have to go through jumpschool in the 82nd. I thought it was pretty "special". Although, there are other Airborne units I have seen that get to wear the Red beret even though some of their folks are "legs". You are right on the money in this respect. Also, I have a great respect for Ranger units (very "special" IMHO) and don't think this will sit well with them. ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Airborne: Yeah, but even the clerks and jerks and REMFs have to go through jumpschool in the 82nd. I thought it was pretty "special". Although, there are other Airborne units I have seen that get to wear the Red beret even though some of their folks are "legs". You are right on the money in this respect. Also, I have a great respect for Ranger units (very "special" IMHO) and don't think this will sit well with them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A "jump qualified" clerk is still a clerk IMO. Besides, berets are UNIT "designations" not individual. Once you leave a unit, like the 82nd, you can't wear the beret. If the beret was suppose to identify jumpers then they would wear them anywhere they went. As for Rangers... we had a saying, "Send the Rangers in and get the war started. The we [armor] can come in and finsih it!" Cav ------------------ "Maneuverists have a bad case of what may be called, to borrow from a sister social science, 'Wehrmact penis envy.'"--D. Bolger Co-Chairman of the CM Jihad Brigade "AS far as Steve and BTS (mostly Steve) are concerned, you are either a CM die-hard supporter, or you are dirt. If you question the game, implementation, or data models they used, you are some kind of neo-Nazi wanna-be, and become an open target for CavScout, SlippySlapDragon, and all the other sycophants who hang on Steves every word."-- Jeff Heidman [comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyPig Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 The thing that gets me is this whole break from tradition... WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH TRADITION? The USA has a very deep and rich military tradition even though its relitively young when compared to her European counter-parts. The good ol "wife" cap has been around forever. Ive seen paintings of union randers wearing them back when we had that little arguement with those southern boys. I mean look at the new 100,50,20,10, and now 5 dollar bills. The lack of charater is apalling. The old greenbacks are works of art in comparison. I am kinda curious, When and what country started this style of headgear? Anyone know? How long has this cap been in use here in the USA? GP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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