Mord Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Look I know it will probably never be made but can't a guy dream? Tell me what you'd like to see in a Nam game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Ambushes, lots of 'em. PBEM would consist of all-forest map, long walk across, and then a series of decisive ambushes at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 24, 2000 Author Share Posted October 24, 2000 Bouncin' Bettys strung across jungle trails, some trip flares and a few claymores...you smell that? it smells like Victory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 24, 2000 Author Share Posted October 24, 2000 Ahh.... I am being made fun of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Those of us without valid opinions like to try and make things humourus. Sorry if you took it as being made fun of. I'll put you on my list of people to be serious with at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 24, 2000 Author Share Posted October 24, 2000 Nah no need to do that! I have a fine sense of humor. I just have seen how anti anything that isn't WWII is around here and I was hoping for a real discussion about a Vietnam game. I didn't take it personal. I was just getting excited that someone responded and then I realized it was a jest. I am fully aware though that a Nam game would be outside the scope of what CM is now. But I'd truly love to see it done with atleast the same mapping and turnbased realtime 60 second feature. [This message has been edited by Mord (edited 10-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Khe Sahn,need I say anything more? ------------------ Nicht Schiessen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Hehe, Ok Mord, you're back on my "Normal People" list. No sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 24, 2000 Author Share Posted October 24, 2000 Thanks Pillar, but my girlfriend wouldn't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 A vietnam game would merely require an update on the small arms ballistics and some new terrain classes. As would any game concerning combat in the last 50 years. Other then some improvements in small arms, mostly leading to a greater volume of fire, combat at the company and platoon level, which CM depicts, hasnt changed much since WWII. To seperate the various wars over the last half century in a simulation you either have to live with just a few small differences (like terrain, abundancy of booby traps, etc.) or you have to get above the tactical level to the operational level. Closing with and killing the enemy just hasnt changed that much in 50 years. Thats why CM could be adapted to any theater, any time, any conflict, since 1940. Want to do a vietnam simulation? Set up a scenario with a rifle company on the biggest map your computer will handle. Cover it with streams and woods, and very steep hills. Plant three bad guy squads out there at random plus another 6 or so sharpshooters, maybe a couple machinegun teams in bunkers. Then have your opponent do everything he can to avoid contact until he's massed and on the ground of his choosing. Then let him fight it out until he's decided he's had enough and he breaks contact back into the woods. Result: you walk around the map for about a hundred turns, loosing guys to sniper fire and mines. Then you have one brief contact in which he chews up your lead platoon in exchange for a half squad and then you walk around for another 100 turns again, hoping he will give you another chance. Sound like fun? Now play it with a PBEM opponent who can only do 2 turns a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Shelby Stanton, in Rise and Fall of an American Army, gives numerous examples of company and battalion sized engagements that would be an easy fit to model with a modified CM engine. The idea that you would wonder around a map endless is not correct. There are plenty of pitched battles to model. Of course I am easy, I would also like to see Korea, Central Europe and the Arab-Israeli wars. Regards, Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundpounder Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Ah, but there was one MAJOR difference to the War in 'Nam. HELICOPTERS. They were such a big part of the way the enemy was engaged. You could just place infantry and say "they just got dropped off by the Hueys", but then Charlie would not have gotten a chance to knock out any of your squads in the air. GP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazyel Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Yeah! the Nam would be great. If somewhat taxing on the ol' pentium. That due in part to the increased trees that would need to be on the map Helicopters could be treated like slow Jabos that drop people instead of bombs...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 I'll set up a Nam scenario later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 A-1 Skyraiders, and Pararescue (USAF)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 What about the VC and NVA (and even the ARVN for that matter!) what would you include for them? Tunnels, The trail, The North, and US puplic opinion in the balance would/could work for the other side, at least be a consideration from a strategic view point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted October 25, 2000 Share Posted October 25, 2000 You need to work on your sarcasm (BS) detector, JoshK. If you'll notice in the begining of my post I recognize that vietnam small unit combat could easily be simulated in CM. The second part was tongue in cheek. Its just that you're talking weeks between major engagements, not days like in WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 25, 2000 Author Share Posted October 25, 2000 Though I doubt that BTS will ever tackle this particular war,(and I am happy either way because I know I'll enjoy any of the CM games. How could I not?)I think there would be alot of enjoyment had by using the elements introduced in Combat Mission in a Nam based game. ie:the turn based system that plays out simultaneously and the awsome mapping. (I would say the map editor is worth 45 bucks by itsself and I don't even have the full version of the game)And maybe that is where the comparison to the original CM game engine should end. I don't truly think that the battles would be as boring as alot of people have stated because there are hundreds of situations that can be portrayed in Nam as there are in any war. Every second of WWII wasn't an in your face thrillfest, there are down times in any conflict. But with the magic of our computers and the brilliant scenario designers in hand we are placed right at the beginning of an engagement. We don't march for days on screen or sit around a base smoking cigarettes and writing letters home. If no one thinks a pitched fire fight for a particular village is as exciting as an armored battle in the Ardennes that is fine, that is their opinion. But with the right game elements implemented I think being stuck in a rice patty by VC crossfire from said village and the jungle line could be very hair raising. Watching your buddies scream for a medic as you frantically try to call in fire support on the enemies position gets my juices flowing. And I would say also that Vietnam offers a good deal of tactics in a battle situation. Maybe not on the scale that WWII has but on a scale that is exciting enough to interest me and others. I really don't think that it would be walk around the jungle all day and shoot once as I have read all over this BB. But even if there were a few scenarios like that I think that they'd be pretty damn tense. I used to play Seal Team way back and I found the tiny little fire fights in that to be heart stopping at times! I understand where alot of the WWII fans are comming from as far as the grand sweep of war goes. Granduer is probably, if not definately, not found in Vietnam, but the very things that make it unique and different are the merits by which I find it so compelling. Tons of different Boobie Traps, Choppers, Naplam Strikes, Tunnel Systems, Mercenaries and Special Forces, Jungles, Civilians that you can't tell apart from the enemy...I could go on and on. I ie: myself, find these things interesting from a military and gaming stand point. well I guess I have rambled on long enough. Thanks everybody for posting on this subject and please don't stop it's getting interesting. Mord [This message has been edited by Mord (edited 10-24-2000).] [This message has been edited by Mord (edited 10-24-2000).] [This message has been edited by Mord (edited 10-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silesian-jaeger Posted October 25, 2000 Share Posted October 25, 2000 I would be down for Nam if the gane wereon a smaller scale. 1 figure on screen = 1 man. Platoon size battles. Company at max. Tunnels would be very cool. ------------------ "In one (German) town, Private Honey stood next to an elderly German man and a ten-year-old boy. As the Shermans and brand-new Pershings rumbled by the boy said,'Deutsches Panzer lind besser.' Honey looked down at him and asked,'If German tanks are better, why aren't they here?' " quote from Stephen E. Ambrose, "Citizen Soldiers" [This message has been edited by Silesian-jaeger (edited 10-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 25, 2000 Author Share Posted October 25, 2000 Yes SJ...that is alot like what I was aiming for. At that scale things would be very personal and I think there'd be plenty of grit in your teeth by the end of a scenario. you would definately feel the sting when SGT Jones gets nailed by an RPG or steps on a Bouncing Bettie. I am no Grognard to where I could wrap off a list of armor stats on various Panthers and what not, but the fact that CM incorporates such things and so much more into it's engine is what makes the game so unique and cool. and I truly appreciate the fact that is modeled in the game. And for this fictional Nam game that we have been discussing to work all those kind of realistic values would have to be incorporated as well or it'd be no good what so ever. I am also no programer.... Well like I said at the beginning of this topic a guy can dream can't he? Mord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittmann Posted October 25, 2000 Share Posted October 25, 2000 Would this mean ROLLING THUNDER instead of 200mm rockets? Napalm on the tree line Recon by fire The mad minute Tanks loaded with Beehive (cannister)for those close tank vs infantry. I'd better stop, I'm starting to drool :-p' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted October 25, 2000 Author Share Posted October 25, 2000 Hell yes my friend all that and more! Maybe some civilian sympathizers who feel compelled to strap on grenade vests and hug the nearest Commanding Officer. Play hell on morale I'd expect. Definately on the units fighting ability. [This message has been edited by Mord (edited 10-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 I would love to see this game but I think it's fairly far off. Part of the problem is that the most interesting smaller scenarios would require a civilian presence. Also, instead of being battles where everything happens in one go virtually everything would be an operation because of the hit-and-run type combat. To fully model this would require a better way of simulating the effects on troops and civilians of drawn out battles and occupations. Since there weren't many desicive fire fights the AI would have to be greatly improved to simulate this. The VC weren't about to stick around and wait for air mobile to drop off more troops than they could handle or for the Americans to drop some artillery on them. I think part of the problem with the game might be the same problem that would exist with WWI games. In the pitched battles there would be a lot of watching your men get mowed down, or watching them get mauled and chewed up by air support. Still, it would be a unique and interesting experience to command either side. The lack of a heavy armored presence on either side would also change the dynamic of the game significantly. I'd love to see how BTS would tackle this conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 ARC LIGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 Sounds to me like you guys want a first person shooter/role playing game, not a tactical simulation. To get all the stuff you want would be huge game hybrid and one helluva a programming nightmare. But maybe one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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