OT- The U.N., the U.S. Army, and me

[CavScout]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by swamp:

the United States and Americans on the other hand do attack countries like spain and turn civil wars into world wars

The counter-attacks are a long way coming but when they do, Americans are gonna have to think about what justice is

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm... what country did the United States attack to start a world war? Last time I checked both world wars were started long before the US got involved.

Cav

[CavScout]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phil the Dill:

Minnesota Joe: your a typical ignorant American, You believe whole heartedly what you see on TV and then ram your jingoistic patriotism down everyone's throat - remember there is a whole world out there not just the USA: the land of the free (and all the rest of that self-centred crap you all seem to spout on about).

Grow Up!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you missed Joe's request, "Thank you in advance for any mature comments you have to offer." Notice the MATURE part...

Cav

PS: Be sure to thank the U.S. for the ability to post those remarks via the internet!

[CavScout]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred:

And as this has nothing to do with the computer game named Combat Mission, I hope that this thread will be locked soon, before another flamewar erupts.

Fred<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the Peng, I take Our Challenge Public! is?

Cav

[USTanker]

Please don't be swayed by anything the John Birch society says. While a West Point cadet in 1991 I was in an airport and picked up some literature being given away by the John Birch Society. Remember the time here as it's important. Anyway, this pamphlet told of the vaunted Iraqi army and how the US military was unprepared and untrained and would lose tens of thousands of soldiers in a war that no one would support. I'll let history provide you with what really happened. My only experience with the John Birch Society was of this misinformed propaganda against the United States and for it's enemies. Draw what conclusions you may.

Congrats on your decision to serve. I did so for eight years as an armor officer (M1A1's the whole time). I loved it - the most fun you can have with your clothes on. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by USTanker (edited 09-08-2000).]

[CavScout]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by swamp:

Ubermac wrote:

1% of the united states citizens own 90% of it's wealth.......

it's the 90% that are the hard workers who build this country, but that 1% who takes the benfits don't even concider themselves U.S. citizens, they are world citizens, they will move their corporation to whatever country they can get the cheapest labor from, same goes for banks

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate to see comments like this. No one seems to care that the top 10% pay the majority of the taxes in the U.S. How one can say it's the top 1% who gets the benifits is beyond me as it is a bold face lie.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

you don't hear about this stuff because the medias are all corporations

STOP the IMF and WTO. STOP the silliness. vote Ralph Nader and the Green Party, and vote against corporate campaign funding

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why are those who are ant-corporation are the same ones begging for jobs from them? I don't get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

look, there is no difference between Al Gore and G.W. Bush, they're both funded by corporate money, guess what their agenda is

you say you're not into politics, well that is the silliest thing I ever heard.

why would one who serves in an army not be into politics?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you want a government run by the military?

Cav

[Xyphorus]

Renaud,

to answer your question:

"I'd be interested in hearing the military enlistement oaths of other countries. Any non-US personnel here?"

From my personal experience as far as I recall, French soldiers do swear oath to protect the Republic and its people. No reference to "domestic ennemy" though, which is IMO a strange concept to include in an oath for the military. Very ambiguous indeed.

Minnesota Joe,

Being honest with you, I have to admit that me too I asked myself the same question that you when I was send to Croatia and Bosnia a few years ago. We took a lot of abuse and humiliation overthere, and my only comment on this is that is it a shame. Soldiers are soldiers, not peace keepers or cops. But once again, French troops are used to be misused and disrespected by their politicians, so it was just business as usual for them. The only ones that did not accept any crap from above were the legionnaires, and decided to act accordingly.

My take on the UN and its US is that if there is ANY country that is able to assert a certain control over this enormous bureaucracy, it has to be the USA. And yet you guys are getting confused and angry; Your politicians control the UN by using the US military as a strong tool to emphasize their definition of the "US national interest" in the world, not the other way around. Also note that many Western Europeans are convinced that the UN is controlled by the US. Try to figure that one out!

Anyways, to be back to CM, I also live in Minnesota, more specificaly in Mendota Heights, St Paul. I have not yet played CM in a PBEM, so Minnesnowta Joe, let me know if your are interested in a PBEM. My e-mail is: Karltrochu@hotmail.com

Sincerely yours,

Karl

[dumbo]

I wouldnt worry about the UN. It is a weak organization which will get weaker. The US is not alone in using the UN as the scapegoat for some of the world ills. Depending on the country you visit some wacko will be describing the UN as a fascist supra government, a bleeding heart liberal waste of money, a communist sympathy organization, racist (anti white or anti black depending on the wacko), warmongering, appeasing or just plain incompetent.

The john birch wackos fall into several of these categories. Nobody with a brain bigger than a grape takes them seriously, I suggest you laugh at them as well.

The reason it survives is it actually does a good job of allowing nations to blow of steam in a forum that will get some kind of attention.

By the way other nations also have concerns about letting their military work under the UN, luckily any nation state can pull its troops at any time.

You should be proud to serve your country knowing that you will have the respect of your more wise fellow citizens. More power to you, I only wish more young talented folks in the western world would do the same.

_dumbo

[Major Tom]

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[This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 09-08-2000).]

[82nd Airborne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barrold713:

The voting record within the United Nations is clearly stained with much anti-American sentiment including many nations that we send big checks that they don't mind cashing.

BDH

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you suggesting that they must conform to the US's wishes because they cashed the cheques? Doesn't sound like freedom or democracy to me.

I may be mistaken but I believe Russia, China, and the US hold the only veto power in the UN and as such I fail to see how the UN controls the US but more like it , the other way around.

Here is a quote from the UN website (might I suggest a better source than the JBS )

"UN Members are sovereign countries. The United Nations is not a world government, and it does not make laws. It does, however, provide the means to help resolve international conflict and formulate policies on matters affecting all of us. At the UN, all the Member States - large and small, rich and poor, with differing political views and social systems - have a voice and vote in this process"

The Security Council is what concerns Minn. Joe as it is them that determine where troops go. This quote from their site might re assure you a bit.

"The Security Council

The UN Charter gives the Security Council primary responsibility for maintaining international peace and security. The Council may convene at any time, day or night, whenever peace is threatened. Under the Charter, all Member States are obligated to carry out the Council's decisions.

There are 15 Council members. Five of these - China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States - are permanent members. The other 10 are elected by the General Assembly for two-year terms. Member States have discussed making changes in Council membership to reflect today's political and economic realities.

Decisions of the Council require nine yes votes. Except in votes on procedural questions, a decision cannot be taken if there is a no vote, or veto, by a permanent member."

I was wrong, France and Britain can veto too.

Interesting topic though Joe, et al. Good luck in the military.

Regards

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What you see depends mainly upon what you look for.

[82nd Airborne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Minnesota Joe:

I will resent taking orders from any non-american to fight in a conflict that the U.S. has no bussiness in.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MJ- firstly don't rule out that there are Generals etc from other countries more than able to lead men in battle, as for conflicts that the US has no business in, that is certainly open to LOTS of debate I am sure.

Just my $.02

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What you see depends mainly upon what you look for.

[Jeff Heidman]

Can someone tell me who I should enlist with if I want to fly one of the black UN helicopters that are insidiously taking over America?

Any help would eb appreciated. Thanks!

Jeff Heidman

[CavScout]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom:

Here in Canada we see it as a priviledge and an honour to serve in UN missions. Why? Instead of being like the US and only wanting to invade or 'liberate' countries for money, the UN does it more often to keep the peace and lower world suffering under tyranical leaders.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure if I should laugh or cry at this. Of course the U.S. is the big bully untill the real bully invades you and then you are begging for American help...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Actually, the bulk of the money gained from US taxation is from the 90%. It is just a myth that the Higher class is taxed to death, one started by them.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simply untrue. One only has to LOOK at the US tax code and see how the more you earn the more you pay.

"In 1994 the top 1 percent of income earners paid more than one-quarter (28.7%) of all Federal individual income taxes, the top ten percent of income earners paid nearly 60 percent (59.1%) of total income taxes, and the top 50 percent paid over 95 percent (95.2%). The bottom fifty percent of earners now pay just 4.8% of all federal income taxes."--Tax Foundation and Internal Revenue Service

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Try living in Europe for a while! You have less disposible income to by more luxury items, but, your nation has a much better social conscience! Unfortunately anything like this is labled 'communist talk'.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Europe has a better "social conscience"? I find that laughable. One simply has to look at what the European "social conscience" has done in the last 75 years...

Cav

[CavScout]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman:

Can someone tell me who I should enlist with if I want to fly one of the black UN helicopters that are insidiously taking over America?

Any help would eb appreciated. Thanks!

Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No to mention the secrete messages on the back of Stop signs!

Cav

[ironcross]

I,d be more worried about the fact that the disney corporations attempt to corrupt the world by getting animals to dress in human clothes, is this some attempt by a secret animal corporation to enslave mankind?

I demand the immediate bombing of disney world before the world is ruled by a egomanical gerbil

.............................................

[Airborne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman:

Can someone tell me who I should enlist with if I want to fly one of the black UN helicopters that are insidiously taking over America?

Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the "Black" helicopters are still OD green, they just happened to look that way at night. I also think they are part of the US Special Ops forces training for real world operations in urban environments. These folks trained in my hometown a couple of years ago and caused quite a stir from paranoid, misinformed citizens who had no clue..I say the more (realistic) training these guys can get, the better.

And MJ, I pretty much went down the same road as you. DEP 6 months prior to graduation. Went in at 17 , combat arms. I wanted and got specific things: 11H (TOW) crewman, 82nd Airborne, Ft Bragg, NC. Although, its true, there was not much of a call for anti-tank infantryman in civilian life, it certainly prepared me for college--and I sure grew up alot. I don't regret serving in combat arms at all. After jump school, I got to my unit to find out that the battalion I supported (1/505) had deployed to the Sinai for 6 months as part of a peacekeeping mission. You do have to put up with a lot of crap and may get stuck were you don't want to be..Make the best of it, and mostly, good luck..Thanks for answering the call..

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Land Soft--Kill Quiet

[Chupacabra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman:

Can someone tell me who I should enlist with if I want to fly one of the black UN helicopters that are insidiously taking over America?

Any help would eb appreciated. Thanks!

Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Meet me in the 42nd Street Station at Midnight on the Winter Solstice. Wear a red carnation in your buttonhole. Bring 3 pairs of black pajamas, 1 pair of steel-tipped boots, 1 entrenching tool, 1 spork, a sidearm, and 100 rounds of ammunition. AND COME ALONE. You will know me by my hat.

This message will self-destruct in 5....4....3....2....

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[dumbo]

"I may be mistaken but I believe Russia, China, and the US hold the only veto power in the UN "

I think you are mistaken here at least in the security council. I beleive the UK and France have Vetos as well. Strong arguments have been put forward that India should have the same veto and probably will within 5 years.

cheers

_dumbo

[82nd Airborne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dumbo:

"I may be mistaken but I believe Russia, China, and the US hold the only veto power in the UN "

I think you are mistaken here at least in the security council. I beleive the UK and France have Vetos as well. Strong arguments have been put forward that India should have the same veto and probably will within 5 years.

cheers

_dumbo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks dumbo, further in post I do note that however. Good point about India, 1 billion of them and all.

Cheers to you, its Friday !

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What you see depends mainly upon what you look for.

[CavScout]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dumbo:

"I may be mistaken but I believe Russia, China, and the US hold the only veto power in the UN "

I think you are mistaken here at least in the security council. I beleive the UK and France have Vetos as well. Strong arguments have been put forward that India should have the same veto and probably will within 5 years.

cheers

_dumbo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The US, Russia, China, France and the UK have veto power and seats in the Security Council, i.e. the victors of WWII.

Cav

[sneaky]

This is an interesting thread. MJ, I would only add that you carefully read the Uniform Code of Military Justice, since when you take the oath you will governed by it's rules and regulations and not by the constitution of the United States (or as Firesign Theatre used to say "United Snakes").

The US has rightly refused to pay dues to a global organization which will eliminate national sovereignty over the course of time. Whether you believe, espouse or condemn this org is of no matter. It will happen. The JBS have a true conspiracy rep and you should take everything with a grain of salt. However, remember there are German troops on US soil. friends of mine (Army and AF spec ops guys) have seen and trained with them. They are privy to some of what is happening with the UN, globalization, biospheres, etc.

Those who see "nothing wrong" or anything happening in this area of world affairs are just as blind and deluded as the members of JBS.

Check this latest story:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/20000908_xex_leaders_lean.shtml

Sneaky

[82nd Airborne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sneaky:

However, remember there are German troops on US soil.

Those who see "nothing wrong" or anything happening in this area of world affairs are just as blind and deluded as the members of JBS.

Sneaky<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have a problem with German troops on US soil? They are Allies, and might I suggest there is probably alot more US troops on German soil.

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What you see depends mainly upon what you look for.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sneaky:

However, remember there are German troops on US soil. friends of mine (Army and AF spec ops guys) have seen and trained with them. They are privy to some of what is happening with the UN, globalization, biospheres, etc.Those who see "nothing wrong" or anything happening in this area of world affairs are just as blind and deluded as the members of JBS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There have been since like 1952. This argument is complete horse hockey.

[Chupacabra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sneaky:

The US has rightly refused to pay dues to a global organization which will eliminate national sovereignty over the course of time.

Sneaky<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, sure. I think it's a little bit ironic that you condemn the John Birch Society for being conspiracy theorists in the same paragraph as this nugget of wisdom.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[sneaky]

82nd,

It depends on why they are deployed. Remember, US Marines took part in the legal confiscation of firearms in Australia. I think it would be slightly disconcerting to see a German Soldier approaching my house for that kind of reason.

Please notice I did not say it was good or bad. Just that is is happening and those who think "globalization" is a figment of the JBS imagination have missed it.

The world is changing and it is important for MJ to realize what kind of army and operations he may be involved with.

Sneaky.

[82nd Airborne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chupacabra:

Um, sure. I think it's a little bit ironic that you condemn the John Birch Society for being conspiracy theorists in the same paragraph as this nugget of wisdom.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good one . LOL!!

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What you see depends mainly upon what you look for.