Some tips for newbie defenders

[Guest KwazyDog]

Hiya Guys. A mate of mine whom has never played a wargame before has been having trouble defending the town as the Americans in Last Defense (err, is that the one with the river? ) and asked me for some tips. I typed up some generic tips for him, and figured it couldnt hurt posting them here for anyone interested. They are pretty much obvious and simple pointers that most of you would already know, but I though they may be interesting to the newbies that are popping up here and there

* In any game, but especially as the defender, the setup phase is about the most important. This gives you the chance to get your men and weapons into a position where they are in cover and are conealed. Make sure youve got the best place you can find for each unit, and take into consideration the defensive properties of the terrain.

* Get down and 'walk' around the battlefield using the '1' elevation. This will give you a good idea of the lie of the land and help you find good defensive positions.

* Check each unit when in a unit is in position with the LOS (Line of site) tool. This way you can check their field of fire and see what they kill area is like

* In your first orders phase, it is often a good idea to tell units to hide so that you can evaluate the enemies paths of advance before opening fire.

* With some units (especially AT weapons), it is a good idea to tell them to ambush a certain point, for instance roads or bridges.

* US Weapons - Using your weapons how they should be is important, here are a few things to note.

MG's : The US have .30 and .50 calibre maching guns. These are similar weapons but have quite different capabilities. The .30 is great for supressing and harming infantry. The .50 cal weapon is a different kettle of fish. Its large shells can penetrate light armoured vehicles and kill those inside. Tis a nice little weapon

Bazooka : Can fire out to 200m, though isnt too accurate until about 100m. Very mean shell on this one, it can kill a Tiger tank in a pinch. You will notice that German tanks somtimes have side skirts on them. These were usef to 'pre detonate' hollow charge weapons (such as the bazooka), so keep this in mind. AP shells go pretty much straight through them though

Infantry Weapons : US infantry usually have a mix of 2-4 types of weapons. The heaviest of them is usually a BAR which basically is a simplified and cut down version of a MG(only a 30rnd clip). Next you will find carbines in the weapons list. These are great for close in defensive weapons, but not to good for longer range. Then there are rifles, good for long range, but slow rate of fire. Make sure you look at all squads and know what type of weapons each one has, because they will vary between different types of units.

The Germans had LOTS of different types of squads, each with they own weapons capabilities. Make sure you check out what German troops you are up against once identified, and take careful note of their capabilities.

Youll also notice that some infantry carry satchel charges (errrm, dont remember if there were and in the beta demo ?). They will use these of their own accord, usually against vehicles. NOTE : Most german squads are armed with man portable 'panzerfaust' weapons. This is a very good reason to keep your tanks away from them, they can kill tanks quite easily. Depending on what time in the war it is, their range can be from 40-100m.

* HQ's : Make sure your HQ units keep they subordinates in COC (Command and Control) where ever possible. Click on an HQ and you will see a red line to all units within COC, and a block to those not. Units not in COC will be more likely to break and run, take longer to move, and will generally not operate to their full potential.

* The sneak command works very well, especially when in woods or in buildings. Remember, buildings are good hiding spots, until they fall down!

Basic stuff, but may be of interest to some

[Lanzfeld]

Nice pointers....

The one I would really stress is the C&C. I find that my units perform MUCH better when in the radius of a HQ team. Not only at the start of a game but all the way through the counter-attack and beyond. Keeping units together is a skill that pays off!

Also....on a quibbling note....the BAR had a 20-round clip. From what I read, the boys went through em FAST!

[Moon]

Nice stuff, Dan. May I... uhm... steal some points for -you know what-?

[Guest Captain Foobar]

I have another one to add to this.

Defense is a tricky thing. The defender MUST use the terrain to his advantage. The attacker gets to chose where the focus of the attack is. It is your job to make him regret this choice, by pulling out of bad situations, and focusing on good ones.

I will use a battle with my brother as an example.

He was defending Reisbeg, as Germans. As I approached the town , as US, in a broad front, he tried to defend the town from the first row of buildings. Once we both discovered each other's forces, we both had a decision to make. I had fire superiority, and I was happy with the situation.

He should have decided to pull back into town, after seeing that I had 4 shermie's wailing away at him. In town, I would have had to abandon the fire support of my Shermans. But that never happened. I had no interest in entering the towm, as I could gleefully execute him where he sat.

So always evaluate the situation, and be ready to change your game plan.

[Dalton]

Other keys to defending:

- planning your retreat

- deploying reserves

- planning a counter attack

Restreat - Always assume that you will be overrun. Plan how you can fall-back in good order. LD is a good example of how to get yourself into trouble. If you put a significant portion of your guys (US) at the stone wall, they have very few options on how to retreat - an all out sprint back to the town is about it!

Reserves - Deploying everything you've got in forward positions gives you more firepower, but less flexibility in adjusting to unexpected actions by your opponent. It also makes your defense very brittle - if one portion of your defense suffers there is no way to patch the hole.

Counter attack - If you think there is a chance of driving back your opponent, think about your routes of attack. Chances are, that if you found a good position to defend from, it is poor to attack from. A wide open kill zone can be used from either side! (I'm guilty of this one, and have had to surrender after crushing the initial attack. )

...Dalton

[Black Sabot]

Excellent thread,

I'm surprised it hasn't been filled up yet.

Anyways, i'll go ahead and add a few points that i use with success.

1) Establish from the start what really needs defending and what is expendable. For instance, in RB you could concede everything to the left of the paved road and still win. Work out a strategy in which you make your opponent bleed heavily for those outlying, expendable positions while you are slowly falling back to defend the important ones.

2) Defend in positions that are mutually supportive. This will increase your firepower at the point of contact and also provides cover for any unit that needs to withdraw.

3) Always maintain a reserve. Keep them in a central location under cover ready to react to any threatened portion of your defense.

4) Make sure your units can withdraw under cover (in other words don't defend in front of wheatfields!).

5) Always have "Plan-B" ready to go. For instance...

* You've just wiped out his flanking force, do you have forces ready to counter-attack his now open flank? (see #3)

* Your left flank has been over-run, do you have forces ready to cover the retreat of your remaining troops? (see #3)

Anyways, i would like to hear other peoples "recipe" for a successful defense. I agree wholeheartedly with KwazyDog's points, especially about "walking " the battlefield.

[Howitzer]

Really good stuff going into this thread...I'll add my small bit to it.

Most of the defensive points have been covered, but here's one that I find very helpful ASSUMING that your defense is not in a position to be easily flanked.

Placing infantry squads in the very back and on the ground floor of buildings they are defending increases their kill ratio vs. enemy squads close assaulting that building. This works especially well with German SMG squads, where close in firepower is awesome.

How do I know this? Experience as the attacker!

Later,

Steve C.

[Lorak]

Great post. I agree with KD's walk around, and the oh so important job of checking LOS's of units when you get them in place. Also for defense for example with a stug. These AFV's are deadly when used in ambushes. So Learn how to get your armor Hull-Down. Takes some practice to learn hill slopes ect.. but well worth it in the end. Also a great defensive tool that works well on attack also.

Lorak

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[Herr Oberst]

The biggest single item I recall from several books and experiences on the virtual battlefield is defense in depth.

Often hard to arrange, but nothing beats having the enemy penetrate your initial line, only to find that he now takes fire from the sides in locations that were not previously visible to him.

I agree with the earlier comment that on the defense it is important to get down and walk around the field. By dropping a unit and checking out the line of sight, you can engineer your defense to where your second line or third line, should you be lucky enough to have one, aren't visible until the initial line has been crossed.

Your second line will not have revealed its position by piddling away ammunition at long range, and their location remains a secret.

[Echo]

I'll add my tip.....

Keep your head down

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As I walk through the Valley of Death, I will fear no one, for I am the meanest mother*#*#** in the valley. (George S. Patton)

[Guest KwazyDog]

Thanks for the responses guys, Im glad they have been on interest to some I will be sure to pass this thread onto my friend whom is having the troubles.

One things that has been noted many times here is the importance of walking around the battlefield. The idea is one totoally new to CM, and it hadnt occured to me to do it until I was reading a German battle report when the defending commander did just that. He went around each squads location before the battle began and checked their positions. The first couple of battles where I didnt do it I remember being frustrated by a small elevations in the land that I hadnt noticed and cut my LOS.

Also something I passed on last night was to take care of the US tanks. Personally as the US I keep pretty much all of my tanks (not Tank Destroyers, a good hull down position with good LOS for those ) out of LOS and behind building, especially those earlier shermans with 75mm's. Even if you have them in a good defensive hull down position they are still in danger. They are much better saved for suprise attacks, preferable from the side or rear. If the enemy has Panthers (not in demo if I recall) or Tigers use your Shermans very carefully, and save them for excatly the right moment. 76mm armed Shermans are much more capable though, use them with a bit more vigor, but they are still thinly armoured (except for the Jumbo!).

Hehe, and thanks for the Lanzfeld Was the Bren as 20, I dont remember ?

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

IIRC, from Talonsoft's Hidden & Dangerous, the Bren Lt. MG had a 35 round clip.

[This message has been edited by Ol' Blood & Guts (edited 04-05-2000).]

[Guest PeterNZ]

Defence is probably the hardest part of this game. I've just won reisberg (!) as germans and here's some things i've been learning.

1) Attack can be good, but be carefull.

on the german left flank, just in front of the houses there's a nice little hill with some trees i end up with one platoon and 2 ps there.. and because they're on the reverse of the hill the only time they ca be shot is up nice and close, and boy.. do they teach attackers something! (JonS lost .. hmm an entire squad on the back of a tank, platoon hq, the tank later on and most of the rest of his platoon as well as some assorted crew and stuff. ) Now the advantage of this kinda stance is that you can menace a front for a long time with a well placed platoon. Once that forward position was discovered, because of where it was he wasn't able to get much fire on it, but it was able to put some flanking fire on him, and he never tried to come up there again.

2) interesting los works: In reisberg, i positioned my 88's so they both had some los at the front right flank. I didn't expect to take out any tanks, (but got 3 with the 88s in the end!) but as infantry came up he was fairly surprised to realise that there were two 88's firring right on those front positions. Very effectively broke up the infantry assault.

3) Keep out of the front row: Fairly obvious, now if he has lost his tanks, and support, GET INTO THE FRONT ROW. Nothing better than watching platoons rush across 60m of open space to try and storm blds with SMG squads in them.

4) be unpredictable. I've beenconsidering trying to defend resisburg by having nothing in the town and hten counterattacking to take it.. stuff like that.

5) don't rely on one strategy. While one flank in that game was on suprise attack, the other flank was soft enough to absorb some invasion and then counter, (2nd or 3rd rank builds had soldiers in). If i had put both flanks on ambush i coul dhave found myself so weak in the center he would just march in and envolop my ambushes, so be careufull

my ideas

PeterNZ

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.C O M B A T. .V I S I O N.

* Film From The Front *

[Guest GriffinCheng]

Big thanks!

Anyway, there have been quite a lot of tips and "strategy guides" from this forum (appearent, since we are still waiting The Real One, we still have some time for our daily lives), I would ask for a favor if there is anybody who is kind enough to compile them into a guide, or sort of, FAQ. I am aware there is a generous effort in preparing a FAQ, I hope somebody would make

an effort in preparing such guide.

Griffin @ work

[This message has been edited by GriffinCheng (edited 04-06-2000).]

[Guest PeterNZ]

A FAQ is being worked on

couple of weeks away i'd say

PeterNZ

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.C O M B A T. .V I S I O N.

* Film From The Front *

[Simon Fox]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now the advantage of this kinda stance is that you can menace a front for a long time with a well placed platoon<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the disadvantage of this stance is that it only works if your opponent is a complete dope (sorry Jon ) and goes charging straight over the hill. If you're outflanked your left hanging out there and have to creep and crawl your guys back into town. As an attacker you have to understand that it is not necessary to wipe out your opponent to win.

Q: What's a hindu?

A: Lays eggs!

ROFL Just a little joke for our trans-Tasman friends

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"Heaven sent and hell bent

Over the mountain tops we go

Just like all the other GI Joes

EE-AY-EE-AY adios!"

[This message has been edited by Simon Fox (edited 04-06-2000).]

[Fionn]

And the most important tip...

Just because the computer says you're the defender doesn't mean you have to be.

I've won Riesberg as the Germans by attacking and have used my schrecks to kill ALL the Allied Armour as well as over a company of infantry for the loss of about a platoon.

As the defender you should not always start in a defensive position. Sometimes it makes sense to attack and you should always be ready and willing to do so from the very start of the game.

[Guest PeterNZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And the disadvantage of this stance is that it only works if your opponent is a complete dope (sorry Jon ) and goes charging straight over the hill. If you're outflanked your left hanging out there and have to creep and crawl your guys back into town<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually, i disagree, that position is remarkably tough and you can swing your squads to face either side you're flanked on and due to the position any tank that tries to get invovled in in a prime position for a ps shot, or even an 88 shot. Placing one of the mortars on the left rear with los to that region makes it a pretty tough position. I'm not saying it's infalible, but for a forward position, it's pretty good.

It's also good because you don't have to make a serious commitment of men to become a real problem for the allies. Just my view

PeterNZ

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.C O M B A T. .V I S I O N.

* Film From The Front *

[This message has been edited by PeterNZ (edited 04-06-2000).]

[Tropic Lightning]

Hello everyone. I've been a reader for a few months and finally got around to registering. Especially since the release date is now set, I'm getting fired up about this game.

You made some very good points and observations KwazyDog. The setup is key. Take your time and always think ahead (possible retreat--never!(kidding), counterattack, etc.)

I've played the scenario quite a few times and hid all of my units. You have to keep checking on them because they tend to get antsy and get out of there hiding positions and pop off a few rounds when the Germans are sighted (even at ranges too far for them to do any damage). I used the mortars to take out the half-tracks. You can probably take out at least 3 out of the 4. The Germans are rightfully cautious. You can afford to wait them out. Make them come out in the open and then let them have it. You can stay out of a major firefight until the Pershings show up to take care of the Tiger and STUGs. Plus, you'll save a lot of ammo that would have been wasted firing at extended ranges. Can't promise that it will work in other scenarios, but it does a pretty good job in Last Defense.

[Black Sabot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tropic Lightning:

You can stay out of a major firefight until the Pershings show up to take care of the Tiger and STUGs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhh...You mean the Hellcats, right?

[Tropic Lightning]

Sorry, I was having a discussion about Pershings with a colleague of mine right before that.

Hey, I've only been Light Infantry, what do I know about tanks anyway?

[Black Sabot]

Believe me, there were times when i wished they were Pershings

[guachi]

I get the feeling that if Fionn was on the defense, outnumbered, and completely surrounded the first thing he'd say would be, "Ah, they have me right where I want them!"

Defense is just an alternative spelling of offense.

Jason

[Bil Hardenberger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I get the feeling that if Fionn was on the defense, outnumbered, and completely surrounded the first thing he'd say would be, "Ah, they have me right where I want them!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see that Fionn's propaganda is working.

[Guest Mirage2k]

Nice thread.

One thing about "Reisburg." When on the attack (as the Americans) the computer will, nine times out of ten, roll its Shermans right down the middle of the road towards the town. I've managed to pull off some NICE ambushes by hiding a pair of Panzerfausts, one on each side of the road, in the woods ahead of the town. When hiding, they'll let the Shermans get mighty close before popping up and taking them out easily from the side.

-Andrew