GilaMonster Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 I HIT a Tiger 4 times with two different bazooka teams and did zero damage. I thought armor thickness was not a big issue with bazookas, shrecks, and fausts. Did I have extremely bad luck or are Tigers just that tough? Shrecks seem to have no problem with Shermans. Gilamonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 Did you note the hit locations from the bazooka teams on the Tiger? From what I have witnessed in the game, bazooka hits are not a guaranteed kill by any means against a Tiger. More often than not, I have immobilized the Tiger, then he hosed down the bazooka team. As for the schrecks hitting a Sherman, well, that's almost a done deal given the high profile and weak armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GilaMonster: I HIT a Tiger 4 times with two different bazooka teams and did zero damage. I thought armor thickness was not a big issue with bazookas, shrecks, and fausts. Did I have extremely bad luck or are Tigers just that tough? Shrecks seem to have no problem with Shermans. Gilamonster<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Armor thickness absolutely has an effect on the effectiveness of HEAT rounds. Range has no effect on their ability to penetrate however. That being said, a bazooka will have difficulty killing a Tiger. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Shrecks seem to have no problem with Shermans<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If I remember the penetration data right, Schrecks can kill anything made durig the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI Tom Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GilaMonster: I HIT a Tiger 4 times with two different bazooka teams and did zero damage. I thought armor thickness was not a big issue with bazookas, shrecks, and fausts. Did I have extremely bad luck or are Tigers just that tough? Shrecks seem to have no problem with Shermans. Gilamonster<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, in a current email game of mine, my opponents Bazooka team did exactly just that, took out a Tiger from about 100+ meters with a Side Turret Penetration. My fault for trying to rush the Tiger across the axis of his advance in a rush to get to a trouble spot. Served me right. Wish I had your problem of it being too tough! I would chalk it up to bad luck. Plus, you may want to try working it around for some type of flank shot. I don't know if you did or not, but just a suggestion. That frontal armor is pretty tough for a zook. (For alot of things for that matter..IMO) GI Tom ------------------ To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of wierd sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 Ah memories... One of my first PBEMs, Zook kills Tiger in LD, from 74m by a frontal hit. Irate crew gets out and shoots zook team. PBEM opponent screams 'You sunk my battleship!' and goes on to lose the game badly. Sweet. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilaMonster Posted August 15, 2000 Author Share Posted August 15, 2000 Thanks for all the responses. They were pretty much frontal shots. I had my understanding of AT stuff wrong. I now understand that RANGE has no effect on the penetration ability of zooks, but armor thickness does. That explains everything. Thanks again fellas! Gilamonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueball Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 IIRC, the bazooka's penetration is about 92mm of armor. The Tiger's front is 100mm, and it's side and rear are 80mm. However, if there is any angle off horizontal to the firing unit, these values will effectively increase. It's worse with a Tiger II, because while the side and rear armor are the same as the Tiger I, it is marginally sloped. Bottom Line -- Taking Tiger out with a Bazooka is not a sure thing. I wouldn't even plan on it happening with great frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 I once had a Tiger survive SEVEN direct frontal zook hits. Direct frontal hits on a Tiger are iffy at best. You want to hit the side or rear on that big cat if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 Well I hope they up the armour on the Tiger's front turrent. Currently its 100 mm in the game which is clearly wrong. Front turrent armour is 120 mm, and it's further protected by the gun mantle which adds another 120 mm to the turrent front. The front plate was 100 mm, however. Ah well this is covered in another post somewhere down below. Hey Fionn, you get that "item" I sent you? Never heard back from you. Do I need to resend it? -johnS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87 Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 I have read about the horror Sherman Tank crews had to endure fighting Tiger and Tiger II tanks in Normandy. They would shoot the Tiger and it would swing around unhurt and blow a whole wide enough to throw a watermelon through though the sherman. -Merle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 There is a closeup shot in Danny Parker's "Battle of the Bulge" book (which is great byw) that shows an upclose shot of a Tiger II being inspected by 82nd paratroopers..There are at least 6 or 7 non-penetrating (it appears) bazooka dings in the front... Edit--Just to add a modern perspective- during my Army days, we trained with the LAW (Light, Anti-Tank ) weapon.. basically a one-shot, disposable 66mm AT launcher. Like its predecessors, it is fine to take out light armored vehicles, bunkers, etc.. To effectively engage MBTs (we trained to fight the Soviets-T62s, T72s) we knew we would have to volley fire from multiple directions to have any chance of a kill--pretty daunting task to have to get that close (less than 300 meters)..during LAW training at the Infantry school at Ft. Benning, they had us hide in a foxhole while an M60A3 ran over us. Once it past, we had to pop up up and shoot him in the ass (simulated)...Glad I didn't have to apply that in the real world!!! Still it was a rush to have a tank (50 tons ??) driving over you..... ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet [This message has been edited by Airborne (edited 08-15-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Regarding airbornes post... I actually saw some Canadian modern infantry tactics versus slow moving armor (eg patrolling) and it was nasty. First the trooper waits for the tank to pass over then he must grab his satchel and run up to the tank behind. He then throws it against the portion where turret meets chasis he then runs for it. The resulting explossion will "pop" the tanks turret up and forward resulting in engine damage and extensive turret damage. But note this is versus single units. In any kind of combined arms situation the poor grunt would never make it to the tank. Interesting none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I have lost more damn King Tigers to bazooka's than to anything else....except the dreaded Company CO. I lost two KT's to one CO in one turn! God I was infuriated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Der Unbekannte Jäger: Regarding airbornes post... I actually saw some Canadian modern infantry tactics versus slow moving armor (eg patrolling) and it was nasty. First the trooper waits for the tank to pass over then he must grab his satchel and run up to the tank behind. He then throws it against the portion where turret meets chasis he then runs for it. The resulting explossion will "pop" the tanks turret up and forward resulting in engine damage and extensive turret damage. Interesting none the less.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yikes!! At least we got to pop up and shoot (before being met by mister 7.62mm) ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Yikes!! At least we got to pop up and shoot (before being met by mister 7.62mm) *lol* Yes the tactic apparently works very well versus such models as your own US Abrams. Unfortunatly I bet the grunt would be kissing dirt before anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I resemble that remark! I remember that 'zook shot. Of course, I don't remember losing the game badly. I got him back though with a rear-shot bazooka kill on a Tiger in Wiltz. It was a beautiful thing. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Ah memories... One of my first PBEMs, Zook kills Tiger in LD, from 74m by a frontal hit. Irate crew gets out and shoots zook team. PBEM opponent screams 'You sunk my battleship!' and goes on to lose the game badly. Sweet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ------------------ "Artillery is a terrible thing. God, I hate it." Pvt. David Webster 101st airborne 1942-45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horo Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I just got the full version of the game, and have had a lot of fun. As to the question of killing superior armor with a zook (I called them "gadzooksas" when I used to play Squad Leader), only from the side is any kind of a kill even remotely possible. I got a Panther from an elevation (hiding on a wooded hill), but that's about all one could expect. Make sure you have infantry cover. ------------------ Ugati: You despise me, don't you Rick? Rick Blaine: If I gave you any thought I probably would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 I know who's Tiger Gila is trying to kill! You already blew apart my Stuh!!!!! You're not gonna kill my Tiger! He is going to grind your little Rangers under his treads and squish em and squash em and blow em apart until the roadblock is mine!!!!! Unless that Sherman you have zipping up behind me blasts him first.. My 3 schrecks firing at it seem to be having trouble.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilaMonster Posted August 16, 2000 Author Share Posted August 16, 2000 You have to HIT the Sherman before the shrecks will do any damage. Then I'm sure the Sherman will die. Gila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GilaMonster: Did I have extremely bad luck or are Tigers just that tough<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You had bad luck! In the very first game of CM I played, Beta demo "Last defence", I had my invulnerable Tiger hunt down the road to pick out enemy positions. Once it reached the stone wall it was shot at and immediately knocked out by the nearby bazooka... I was shocked! Now I've learned to watch out for those AT teams Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Runyan99: I resemble that remark! I remember that 'zook shot. Of course, I don't remember losing the game badly. I got him back though with a rear-shot bazooka kill on a Tiger in Wiltz. It was a beautiful thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm, maybe my memory is failing me, I was pretty sure you lost it. Wasn't that the one where you dicovered the power of the MaDeuce as well? The Tiger in Wiltz was actually something else, and at least my crew got your Zook team too, IIRC. I can just see us telling CM stories to our grand-children... ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted August 17, 2000 Share Posted August 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GilaMonster: You have to HIT the Sherman before the shrecks will do any damage. Then I'm sure the Sherman will die. Gila<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually Von Brizee should be quite aware of what a well placed zook or two can do to his big bad tanks. Might I mention a certian Panther? Naughty Kitty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dirtweasle: Naughty Kitty! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What'd I do? Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusOHGamer Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Let me tell you about zooks. My esteemed(sp?) opponent (Buckeye) and I have been testing one of Wild Bill's scens. Basically a bunch of KT's with a little inf support against an American convoy of god-knows-how-many 76 Sherms, Wolerenes (90mm), and worst of all, crack zook teams, all playing in the same sandbox filled with trees. Hardly any woods, just trees. I've learned to hate the little bastards. One team took out 3 KT's in two turns. It was as if they WANTED to be killed. <50m away and they lose sight of the zook just before it whacks them. Both of them. We've worn each other down to a draw now, but agreed to fight it out. Lesson learned: Never trapse through trees (where your LOS is <50m) with tanks, even KT's, without sending some inf with them. I had no choice due to scenario setup. Zooks and Schrecks can kill the best the enemy has to offer. If played right (i.e. hidden ambushes, shots to the rear/side, etc.), which my good opponent did, they are worse than any A/T gun. COG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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