Epée Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Can a 81mm mortar harm a tank in any way? What are the chances? BTW, is there anyone else from Brazil on this forum? Thanks, Epée Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Certainly mortar fire will cause a crew to button up (and possibly kill the commander before he closes the hatch), but I have read reports here that 81s can knock out a tank. Top armour was notoriously thin (they had to save weight somewhere), but a direct hit would be required to do the trick. GAFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I had a 105 or a 81 not sure which one it was hit that Panther in VoT directly on the top of the (buttoned) turret and take its gun out Yup my opponnent left the Panther sitting on the top of the hill and I unloaded all the arty I had left on it and YES! one lucky shot and it hit the turret and took out the main GUN! ( and he was PISSED to say the least) yes that was very satisfying sure I would say try to drop arty on tanks if you can, but you have to get very lucky to do anything other than scare them or make them button up -tom w <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gaffertape: Certainly mortar fire will cause a crew to button up (and possibly kill the commander before he closes the hatch), but I have read reports here that 81s can knock out a tank. Top armour was notoriously thin (they had to save weight somewhere), but a direct hit would be required to do the trick. GAFF<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Epée: Can a 81mm mortar harm a tank in any way? What are the chances? BTW, is there anyone else from Brazil on this forum? Thanks, Epée<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mortars and arty can also damage the tracks on a tank, thereby limiting it's mobility. Arty does it better but mortars can do it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I had a lucky hit takeout the gun on my 105...right after the other one hit a mine. Damn, AI is tought in VoT at +150% ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Of course, it's also worth noting that he British army did a study of the effects of artillery on tanks during at least a portion of WW2. What they found was that a vanishingly small number of tanks were actually taken out by artillery, though the (relatively) minor effects (damaged gun/immobilization) were possible. IMHO CM models this quite well. Most of the time, it has little effect other than buttoning, occasionally, the noted damage... but I've never seen a tank actually totally destroyed by artillery. Cheers, Walter R. Strapps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighead Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Well if you got that LUCKY SHOT, I mean the shell land into the tank, sure man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Yes, in fact I lost a Mark IV to an INCREDIBLY lucky Top Penetration hit from what I think was a 60mm Mortar! And I mean he BREWED IT UP! BOOM, Bye Bye Klaus! Thanks for the war effort! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I've managed to take the panther out 2 times out of 10 times with 105mm arty fire, playing VoT against the AI. One time it was a very big explosion and the panther brewed up, didn't see any crew get out. Direct hit I guess. ------------------ "If they are waiting for me to make the first move then I'll trick them and make my second move first." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenmur Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 The first time I played VOT (Allies) I immobilized the panther with my arty. Blew the tread I guess. used smoke for the rest of the game so he could not see and got him in his right flank with a zook. I wish I could have saved the movie just for that. Stenmur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nijis Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Just KO'ed the Panther with a 105 mm round in the last game of VoT I played. It was virtually the very last shell of the battery, too. It's probably just a coincidence, but I've noticed that FO's last ammo point is disproportionately lethal, accounting for probably about half of all my kills against dug-in anti-tank guns. [This message has been edited by nijis (edited 06-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I had a very bad luck with mortars in CE. Mortar shell fell between two shermans. It damaged the gun on one and immobilized the second one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flix Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I don't usually use anything smaller than 105mm on tanks. The 105mm barage will make the Panther in VoT button up and run. It'll get him off of that hill thereby limiting his LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I've found that 105s and sometimes 81s will immoblize the panther more often than not. If it is a crappy position I just let it sit there and think about what it did. If it's in a commanding position I sneak everything I have that can kill tanks around it's flanks and bean it good from the sides. Then it dies. (HaHa on it.) - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epée Posted June 1, 2000 Author Share Posted June 1, 2000 >I had a very bad luck with mortars in CE. >Mortar shell fell between two shermans. It >damaged the gun on one and immobilized the >second one! I played CE twice this morning, as the germans, and twice I managed to immobilize a Sherman with 81mm rounds. It wasnt at all difficult, since the AI tends to leave one or two shermans stopped and firing at me. Epée Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TURBO Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 If an 81mm mortar round hit the rear deck i don't think i would want to be inside when it brewed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I'm in the middle of a PBEM game of CE as the Germans. I had parked a Stug behind the Church. The TC was perched proudly atop his steed, the ruler of all he surveyed. Suddenly, my opponent begins dropping 60mm mortar rounds and one hits squarely on the roof of the Stug. Instantly i get a shocked, buttoned-up crew with the TC as a casuality. One can draw the mental image of the Stug crew nervously waiting for the enemy to appear, then a big BOOM hits the roof, the headless TC's body slowly slumps into his seat, and the crew just freaks!! I do love this game ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 I think one reason why artillery fire was not seen as effective against armor in the BIG PICTURE is that it generally takes a whole lot of shells to do anything. While your 105 gunners are pounding the crap out of the Panther they are NOT pounding the crap out of the German infantry. Since there is never enough assets to go around, this is a real trade off. One thing is for sure though... tanks have a LOT of weak spots. In particular, the top surface. A large HE round hitting the back deck of a tank would almost certainly immobilize it. There are ventilation grills, hatches, and in general very thin armor. If you have ever looked inside any sort of vehicle you can see how many "soft" parts the engine has. Shred even one hose or filter and bingo, the engine will not work (or worse!). Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 06-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Hehe, and you dont know how suprised I was to see it matt. They very last shell to fall in the turn it was, too Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Interestingly, the Panther has thinner top armor than the Sherman. You can check this by clicking on the tank and pressing ENTER. You'll see the armor stats. Upshot: Panthers don't like to be hit from above by anything! Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Coincidentally, I did a test last night of arty effectiveness vs. tanks... Here is he setup: 1 Panther buttoned, sitting in the open, staionary. 1 105mm Forward Observer, with LOS on the Panther, in clear weather, with no harrassment. 120 seconds later, the first shells were 5 seconds from firing, and I calculated this specific turn 20 separate times. Results: 8 times ---------- no effect 5 times ---------- immobilised 3 times ---------- gun damage immobilised 3 times ---------- gun damage 1 times ---------- Brewed Up So that's 8 times nothing, 12 times damage. I was very intrigued, but not surprised, those 105's make a pretty big boom. This could have been an outlier, as I only calced it 20 times, but it has to be AT LEAST somewhat likely to produce these kinds of results.... I dont think I will waste my time if the enemy armor is on the move, but those lame ducks are going to feel my wrath!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 so you have roughly a 60% chance of causing some damage. Not bad, But It really would depend on how much ammo you have to spare and what other targets were avalible. Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 exactly, BUT if i were to recalc another 20 times, I might get anywhere form 20% to 70%, i dont know, Im not a statistic guy..... My conclusion was that it is worth firing at a staionary tank, as long as no good soft targets are available.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Would you mind running that another 20 times? I'd be interested to see what difference there is in the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 HAHA, not right now....I have proved my incompetence as a researcher with my frighfully short attention span....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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