JeffRaider Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 I'm currently reading Balkoski's Beyond The Beachhead, 29th ID In Normandy. I've got lots of questions, now. Some CM-related, some just my personal curiousity. 1) Why is there no J Company in American Regiments? 2) I notice that in the book Platoon HQs have five men, but in CM they've got four. The book is reflecting the US 29th Div, and the German 352nd Div. 3) That leads to another question. In scenario design, can we rename units/change number of men/change weaponry, to reflect battle damage? IE, can I have squads already down to half-strength at the beginning of a scenario? 4)That leads to yet another Q. Are individual units modelled, IE, can I have a historically accurate representation of the 29th ID? 5) Balkoski says that the typical German infantry company has 15 MGs, but I only count 14. 1 for each squad(9), platoon HQ MG(3), and the company HQ HMGs(2). 6) About commanders: Are company/battalion XOs modelled? Can we at least split the Company HQs and Battalion HQs? What about battalion S-3s? 7)Any chance of tactical ammo redistribution? In Riesberg two of my squads were nearly out of ammo, but my third squad was nearly full(plt reserve). Surely this sort of ammo resupply is not unrealistic at the CM-scale? Thanks for listening!! Can't wait to hear some responses!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 1) I don't really understand this question. US forces had Regiments of 3 Battalions, and there were 3-4 Companies per Battalion, so, each battalion would have A, B, C, and possibly D company. I wouldn't see them getting as far as J company. 2) Possibly, either the book is wrong, or that the 29th and 352nd were freakish divisions, or, size varied and 4 was the average, or BTS was wrong. I would doubt the last assumption and I would probably assume that it was just an average of typical formations. 3) I don't know? 4) You can call whatever unit whatever you want in the scenario briefing. However, you could not rename the Battalion HQ to be 1/422 Battalion of 29 Division, at least we haven't been told we could. Plus, CM isn't really meant to be Divisional sized. It is limited by the size of the maps, and average processer power, plus, you would not want to have to deal with a divisions worth of squads (200+ !!). 5) I don't think by 1944 that there was a typical German formation in practice. 6) You can't split any command unit, or else half of it would be a command unit, and the other half wouldn't (there is only 1 commander). 7) Ammo redistribution? No. It has been dealt with on numerous posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom punkrawk Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 hey I'm reading Beyond The Beachhead right now too. I'm at "on to St. Lo" or somehting. pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sgt Morgue Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 Custer's cavalry troop , that he died with was "J" troop , so now any US army 3rd squadron(cavalry), 3rd battlion(infantry) which is organized in a regiment skips "J" troop and in infantry "J" company. i know this history because i am an x-US cavalryman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 2. I'm quite sure you could find platoon HQs with 2 men, 3 men or 10 men if you looked hard enough .. Something has to be taken as the average and I guess TO&E-correct platoon HQs were used. So, in summary, I'm sure the TO&Es gravitated to 4 men per platoon HQ and I'm equally sure there were many platoons HQs with 5, 6 or 2 men but something has to be chosen as the standard so 4, which I presume has some documentary evidence behind it, was chosen. 3. You can rename them but not make them battle-damaged. 4. Since EVERY division's detailed TO&E differed the emount of work required to input and research ALL OOBs and TO&Es for ALL divisions at ALL times would be insane (years worth). For the record NO division ever had the same OOB from one day to the next. Individual men and vehicles were knocked out and replenished on a day to day basis etc etc. 5. I think, and I'm not 100% certain about this, that the Company HQ maintained a spare MG42 but that this didn't have a full ammo issue so, for CM's purposes, isn't considered as being available. That would explain the disparity between 14 and 15. 6. No, read more about what CM is and you'll see that XOs, S3s etc are not really necessary on the scale of CM and for what CM is. 7. Do a search in the threads.. There has been MUCH discussion of just this issue ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Why is there no J Company in American Regiments?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Custer's cavalry troop , that he died with was "J" troop , so now any US army 3rd squadron(cavalry), 3rd battlion(infantry) which is organized in a regiment skips "J" troop and in infantry "J" company. i know this history because i am an x-US cavalryman.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Interesting reason... not the reason we were given in the Marines. The reason we were given was that they didn't want a "Juliet" Company. Does kind of have a less than Gung Ho quality about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I don't really understand this question. US forces had Regiments of 3 Battalions, and there were 3-4 Companies per Battalion, so, each battalion would have A, B, C, and possibly D company. I wouldn't see them getting as far as J company.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is only true in armored divisions (with the exception of 2nd & 3rd), because the battalions are not part of a regiment. Infantry that is part of a regiment are lettered sequencually throughout. Thus, 1st battalion has companies A, B, C, D... 2nd has companies E, F, G, H... and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 I don't really know the answers to your questions, but that hasn't stopped me before. 1. Not a clue. 2. Something else to consider is that CM is just modelling the guys in combat. I know you asked about platoon HQs, but in a Company HQ some guys were set aside for other things, like medics and such. In a German VG Company, for instance, at least one guy had to act as farrier and stay with the horses. 3. Like others have said, no. There was a discussion on this, like, six months ago. While you can't cut down a squad you can do it with a platoon (as was done in CE) 4. If you've got the historical research, the sky is the limit. I received a very cool book on the Afrika Korps for Christmas (just arrived cuz it was special order) from my Dad. Has the entire OOB for the Korps, right down the bakery company (554th motorized for the DAK, Fionn take note) 5. Steve mentioned that one of the HQ MGs was a spare and had no ammo. 6. This brings up a question. Why can't Bn HQs run? Is it because they have heavy equipment like radios and such? 7. This is the kind of thing that would likely only occur after battle. And remember, general squads can't run out of ammo. This represents hoarding the final cliip and I guess you could also think of this as redistribution/scavenging also if you want. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This brings up a question. Why can't Bn HQs run? Is it because they have heavy equipment like radios and such?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As a matter of fact, yes. The higher up you go, the bigger the radios get [This message has been edited by Berlichtingen (edited 01-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 I thought it was the higher up you go, the bigger the egos get. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zigster Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Interesting reason... not the reason we were given in the Marines. The reason we were given was that they didn't want a "Juliet" Company. Does kind of have a less than Gung Ho quality about it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Was Juliet the code for J in WW2? I know the call signs have changed since then. Besides, you think Foxtrot and Golf are gung ho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Besides, you think Foxtrot and Golf are gung ho?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Obviously, sir, you have never played a round of golf against a Marine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zigster Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 Brings a whole new meaning to "Fire in the hole!" I'm thinkin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 1. "The reason we were given was that they didn't want a "Juliet" Company. Does kind of have a less than Gung Ho quality about it" I find that reason hard to believe, after all L company was "Love" company even in the Marines. Hard to be gung ho when you're in "Love" copmany. (Unless you are going on a 3 day pass. 2. Keep in mind that the 29th ID (BTW that's a great book, read it twice), as well as all the assault divisions were over strength when they went into D-Day, though after about one minute that situation was permanantly altered for the duration of the campaign. 3. Not yet but I'd love to see that too. 4. Inthe editor you have all the basic building blocks needed to reconstruct any actual unit including renaming the squads and leaders. Some of the scenarios, depending on the level of historiocity and research available will have this done. 5. As for 14 vs 15 MGs there is some confusion as to the existance of a spare MG42 kept at the compnay level as a replacement weapon. No doubt ot would have had some ammo with it just in case. Also when you say a typical German rifle company, there are a large number of differnt TOEs that exist in 1944 for the Germans many differnt types of companies. For instance a PG company (April 1944 TOE) has 22 LMGs not including what's mounted on half tracks. (Per a translation of the German squad Tactics WW2 amnual, German Army.) A Schutzen Company (May '44) has 12 MGs. A grenadies Company (Nov 44) has 9 MGs including 2 "reserve MGs". 6. No XOs or staff officers but there are work arounds to create multiple leader groups. 7. It's something that will be looked at in more detail after release though there has been discussion already on the kinds of limitations that would need to be be put on something like this based on how it actually occurs in real life. The key is to control your fire distribution or now! Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted January 23, 2000 Author Share Posted January 23, 2000 Thanks for the replies! Most informative. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted January 23, 2000 Author Share Posted January 23, 2000 Los said: 6. No XOs or staff officers but there are work arounds to create multiple leader groups. Cool! Can you say more? Fionn says that I won't have much use for Co. XOs and Bn. S-3s, but I'm sure I can find something for them to do. . . The CM-scale, as I understand it, is perfect for modelling Battalion-level fights. Wouldn't S-3s and Bn. XOs be a good idea here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 3) I'd like to see it too. How else can we start a scenario with battered troops. I want to make a relief scen. where the troops being besieged already have casulties. Can we start a scen. with half squads? If so that way we could simulate casulties to unts that were hastily thrown together and maybe not include some HQ's. ***That brings me to a question. Does the OOB automatically include so many HQ's depending on the units chosen,or, do you pick (purchase) them seprately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 23, 2000 Share Posted January 23, 2000 Well, what I meant is that I wouldn't like to see people trying to have S3s running around in battle all the time and I wasn't about to give the "workaround" ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted January 24, 2000 Author Share Posted January 24, 2000 ARGGHHH!!! What is the workaround? Don't be coy, damn you! <Levels his M1 Carbine at Fionn> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 What workaround ? (EVIL grin) ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted January 24, 2000 Author Share Posted January 24, 2000 (Levels his Garand at Fionn, grim smile plastering his face. . .) Spill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L Tankersley Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1) Why is there no J Company in American Regiments?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've always assumed it was to avoid confusion. 'I' and 'J' look quite similar, as do 'O' and 'Q.' Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Zeares Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by L Tankersley: I've always assumed it was to avoid confusion. 'I' and 'J' look quite similar, as do 'O' and 'Q.' Leland J. Tankersley<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's probably the real reason. The others given sound like military legends to me. Especially since there was no J Company with Custer. He died with C, E, F, I, and L Companies (source: a 7th Cav web site). As far as I know, U.S. regiments have never had a J Company. I have a book on the Victorian British Army that mentions the fact that the British Regiments have never had a J Company either. -- Mike Zeares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Berli said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Besides, you think Foxtrot and Golf are gung ho? Obviously, sir, you have never played a round of golf against a Marine<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Okay, raise your hand if you've ever danced the Foxtrot with a Marine (and I'm not talking one of the recent Marines who might well be female; we're talking Chesty Puller here) DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Okay, raise your hand if you've ever danced the Foxtrot with a Marine (and I'm not talking one of the recent Marines who might well be female; we're talking Chesty Puller here)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Doug, your comin' damn close to heresy here. I mean, takin' Chesty Poller's name in vain is dangerous ground Good night Chesty, where ever you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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