Sarge Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 the age old problem of hang around an objective till the last couple of turns - then make a suicidal rush to take it on the last turn. Instead of ongoing knowledge of how many turns there are...any thought to turns=+/- 5 or somewhere between 5 & 10 either more or less turns than that listed? that way you'ld never know for sure when its gonna end- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SySShockeD Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 He Sarge, this subject was already discussed: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/001581.html Hope this gives you an answer, SySShockeD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 The random game ending might not be necessary for Combat Mission, actually. Unlike in traditional hex-games, the victory location is not a hex that you need to occupy (or - even worse - be the last one to move through). Victory locations in CM cover a radius around the flag (there are two flag sizes, big and small, with different point values and control areas), and the flag goes to the side which has considerably stronger forces in the area. If both forces are soughly equal, the flag remains neutral. So if you sit around and dash for it at the end of the game, you might still not control the flag, because the enemy is sitting on the other side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 Sure, I have had times where both forces are in a wooded area, not seeing eachother but you knew that they were there as the flag turned neutral. Possibly the victory flag gives away too much information to the enemy? I mean, the enemy forces know that some sort of formation is occupying a certain area or not just by the status of the victory flag. I know that this is hard to modify, as, there has to be some knowledge of what one actually controls. Possibly, one can only see their own victory flag or see a neutral flag for a space unoccupied or one that the enemy occupies? Possibly this is already done, as I would have no knowledge of where an enemy is if I cannot see them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 Has anyone ever had the AI surrender? I've played games where I controlled nearly all the victory locations (>90%)and had routed or killed nearly all the enemy, and still the game lasts for (a very predictable) 30 turns. The random game length is, IMHO, a great idea. The idea of a time limit on a battle is ludicrous. In fact, it seems to me that battles should have no time limit at all. They end when one side has accomplished a specific task and the opposing side has no chance to stop them, or once one side is rendered combat ineffective (retreat, surrender, deaths, etc.) I recall from earlier threads that once one side had developed enough of an edge, the game would declare that side the winner. Is this still correct? If so, I feel that it probably needs a little fine tuning. If not, please put it in (I hate playing out those last few turns when the outcome is painfully clear to everyone). Either way, ramdom game length seems like a simple thing to set up, and would add significantly to the realism of the game. Just my $.02 worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 Well in the past week I have had the AI surrender MULTIPLE times. More often than not, but then the whole surrender issue really favors an aggresive and overpowering offense, which just happens to be my style! Madmatt p.s. BTW I AM referring to the demo here! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 Major Tom, I see your point, but you forgot FOW. The flag could show that you are in control of a location while the German's show it is in their control. the flag could be neutral, but will not report that to you. Steve will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that this is the case. Bottom line: You will not know enemy units are around a flag if you don't see the unit. Tim 'Tiger' Orosz [This message has been edited by rune (edited 01-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 WRT flag possession, you'll only see the flags change if you can actually spot enemy near the flag. Otherwise, it will stay neutral (or friendly, depending on how close you are to it). FOW really does seem to work well in this game. Seeing how long it takes to ID tanks is always fun. If you watch the movies from the Chance Encounter AAR between William Thiel and Dan Brown, look at how the Americans ID the Germans that are in the heavy woods on the German side. Throughout much of the scenario, these troops are IDed as full infantry squads even though they're actually only HQ and spotter units. Many of them died before ever being properly identified {sniff}. Also, in my very first game, I played Riesberg as the Americans. A gun emplacement near the center of town took out one of my tanks early. I IDed it as a generic low-slung greenish/grey gun (sorry, I'm not sure what type). I destroyed the gun about half-way through, and it remained the same gun ID throughout. But after the scenario ended, the smallish grey gun turned into a huge beige monstrosity! Where did *that* come from?!? FOW is very cool. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 We thought about random game lengths. There were some problems balancing this out right, so the game will not extend beyond its turn count. We might want to change this in the future, but for some of the reasons listed above don't think it is as huge of an issue as with other games. Flag rushing usually results in worse results than staying put. Mostly because casualties mean so much and can be rapidly "aquired" if the player is too hasty. AI surrender in the demo had several bugs. Since been fixed. rune is correct. Wolfe, yeah... FoW rocks The first time I tested Riesberg (which I set up) the AI only recently became able to reposition units. I was the Americans and the bastard moved the Flak guns. I lost all my armor in 3 minutes, but only saw one gun during the exchange. The other gun remained hidden until after it had greased my last tank and was beating up on my infantry! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Steve, you've created a MONSTER! You're MAD, do you hear me? MAD!! DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Bomber Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 A few words on: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I hate playing out those last few turns when the outcome is painfully clear to everyone). Either way, ramdom game length seems like a simple thing to set up, and would add significantly to the realism of the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would gladly surrender if it means saving time, frustration and my troops lives (Moral is one of the top features of CM, your men will not march blindly into Heavy MG fire) Therefore if it is painfully clear, do what a true leader would do, start with a fighting retreat, if your not going to make it off board without lossing a lot more troops… SURRENDER My response to Sarge: I think it would be a good on/off switchable feature for the game! Like Weather…etc Hey Sarge, Watch Your Six! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Don't surrender... Offer a cease-fire. The AI will usually accept it if you've hurt it badly.. Generally if it has lost all of its vehicles and a lot of infantry it'll be quite happy to accept a cease-fire. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Bomber Posted January 8, 2000 Share Posted January 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: Don't surrender... Offer a cease-fire. The AI will usually accept it if you've hurt it badly.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess I should have been more clear… I was refering to playing PBEM. so far, I have not had to worry about surrender or a cease-fire when playing AI. (I did not notice the cease-fire option, thanks… so much to learn… this is a great forum!) ------------------ Always Check Your Six! [This message has been edited by Heavy Bomber (edited 01-08-2000).] [This message has been edited by Heavy Bomber (edited 01-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted January 8, 2000 Share Posted January 8, 2000 You know what I would prefer that victory location be marked, but with no nationality flag! Think about it, you don't really know in the heat of a battle if you really control a victory location or not - I want extreme FOW.....no enemy morale % and victory % too. I want to kept guessing unitl the game ends! You'd be forced to defend all locations until the very end. I think this would add to the tension in the game - but I guess its too late now ...unless BTS has read my mind again and implemented it I guess not I mean having all these morale % and Victory % and flag colour showing is a tad gamey! ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 01-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted January 8, 2000 Share Posted January 8, 2000 CoolColJ, If you *really* don't want to have German and american flags, there is something you can do. Open up the CM graphics and copy the neutral flag onto the german and american ones. Then when someone takes a flag you won't be able to tell. - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Good idea! Actually I'll mod the flags I'll try scrubing out the morale % and victory % area - proably won't work as the numbers are over layed... Maybe BTS wiull have this a hardcore FOW option ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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