Need help beating my Dad (at CM)

[Pvt.Tom]

When I play my Dad in CM we usually play QBs, he is the Americans on the Defense and I am the Axis. He always gets Shermans with 76mm guns, never 75mm. What should I do with my Armor points? Get a couple Panthers or a bunch of Mark IVs? The last game I played the 76 Shermans had no trouble killing my Panthers so I thought maybe it would have been better to get Mark IVs since I can get more of them. Any advice anyone can give me would be great.

Thanks Pvt.Tom

P.S. I just want to give BTS a big thanks for making this game, since my Dad and I started playing CM together we have been talking more than we have for a long time. So Merry Christmans to BTS.

[This message has been edited by Pvt.Tom (edited 12-24-2000).]

[OsinO]

Hehe, Id like to have a chance to play your dad What'ya say?

[Monte99]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt.Tom:

Get a couple Panthers or a bunch of Mark IVs? The last game I played the 76 Shermans had no trouble killing my Panthers so I thought maybe it would have been better to get Mark IVs since I can get more of them. Thanks Pvt.Tom<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd stick with the Panthers; just keep 'em back so you can engage the Shermans at the longest range possible. That way your Dad's armor will be at a serious disadvantage. And make sure to keep all those Shermans in front of you You don't want to get stuck having to traverse the turret back and forth.

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"Arms are my ornaments, warfare my repose." - Don Quixote

[BFCElvis]

My father has never come close to beating. I am now going to advise him to buy 76s and defend as the Americans. That you for the heads up. He is 0-4 and would probably enjoy winning one.

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What do we do with a terrible liar? Well, Great liars we send into the clergy.

Good liars we groom for politics. Moderate liars we supply with sherrif's badges

and guns, and the bad liars, well, we make them heroin whores. So what the hell

do we do with the Terrible Liars? Well, it seems we turn them into physicists

called "chrisl." Peng

[Knaust]

Try a Jagdpanther...trust me as I'm 60 old.

[Jumbo]

Pvt. Tom,

1.) ALWAYS keep at least two tanks together. NEVER let one wander around by himself. The idea is that one will look out for the other. Kind of like a pair of fighter aircraft where one leads and the other (the wingman) looks out for the leader's rear end. Three together can be better than two.

2.) Make use of your infantry by having them ahead (with some on your flanks) of the advancing tanks to find out what is ahead. The infantry will also keep away bazooka teams from sneaking up and taking a pop shot at your tanks.

3.) Be aware of your tanks limitations. If your tanks have relatively thin skin, use them from a distance if possible. If your tanks have weak guns, that means you'll probably have to sneak up and get a flank or rear shot if possible.

4.) Use your terrain wisely. Try to be where your Dad cannot see your troops. Try Moderate Trees and Modest Hills in your next QB. That way you'll have cover to sneak around and behind -out of sight to surprise him.

5.) Don't just charge staight ahead. Be sneaky. Try coming at him from only one of his sides where you will have a superiority of numbers and firepower against one of his flanks. Lay traps. Find a way to make him fall into them if possible.

6.) If there is a game map where there is several victory locations near each other and one off by itself, try going at the several victory locations with everything you have. He might have units off by that lone victory location that will be unable to join the fight and hence be at a disadvantage in numbers and (you guessed it) firepower.

7.) Check the other CM discussion board called "Techniques and Tips" (or something like that). You can learn a lot that way.

8.) Don't be afraid to make mistakes. In a game, its a great way to learn. Experiment and find out works best for you. Look at what happened when you lost and don't make that mistake again. Talk it over with your Dad. He'll point out what HE thought you did "wrong". It might not be wrong all together. You just may have not had everything happen in a coordinated manner. Next time make it all happen in a smooth coordinated manner.

9.) Hunker down and don't let anything he says OR do shake you from your determination to win. Even if it may look hopeless, dig in even deeper like the Americans did at Bastogne, 56 years ago TODAY! Tell him "Nuts" and fight on.

10.) Give him a big hug after every battle. After all this is only a game. Have fun!

Good luck to you Pvt. Tom!

Jumbo

[Lah]

Awwwwww nice bit about talking to your Dad more

[Bigdog]

I am with the Jagdpanther with its sloping armor & 88mm it is a pretty tuff nut to crack. Just watch your self from getting flanked even a Greyhound can kill you from the rear. And the paired armor thing is great advice. Now go and kick your dad's butt

Big Dog

[Shadow 1st Hussars]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knaust:

Try a Jagdpanther...trust me as I'm 60 old.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or evenbetter, a Jagdtiger

[Guest aaronb]

One word: hetzer.

At any range, his 76's will richochet to the moon while you put round after round through his front armour.

They are TD's (no turret), so protect their flanks and attack from hull-down positions.

Enjoy.

[Shadow 1st Hussars]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aaronb:

One word: hetzer.

At any range, his 76's will richochet to the moon while you put round after round through his front armour.

They are TD's (no turret), so protect their flanks and attack from hull-down positions.

Enjoy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch out for the Hetzer's low ROF

[Pvt.Tom]

Wow, thanks for all the hints, here is another problem, I sent my infantry out first to clear the way for the tanks, but since they are out front his tanks are able to bring them under fire from behind trees and buildings that block my tanks direct fire at him. I tried 150mm Spotters but they only managed to knock out the gun on one of his tank.

Thanks Again Pvt.Tom

[Wolfe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aaronb:

One word: hetzer.

At any range, his 76's will richochet to the moon while you put round after round through his front armour.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, not if they're using Tungsten!

And is he buying Sherman 76s or Sherman Jumbo 76s? A Panther is going to have a bit of a hard time with the Jumbo's armor. You may want to think about buying a King Tiger or three.

- Chris

[Guest MantaRay]

Or play a game with a few JagdTigers. 128mm gun will put really big holes in his armored forces. Just dont count on them for infantry support, tha is where StugH42's shine.

And remember, no matter how many times you fall to your dad, if you learn what his tactics are, and figure out how to counter them, then soon you will get that big win.

CM is not about winning or losing, it is about tactical expertise and minimization of mistakes. Try making infantry only battles and try different things, until you see what works and what doesn't. Then graduate to Armor only. Gradually you will get better timing and a better feel for the terrain. Learn to make your opponent think you main axis of attack is somewhere else. And NEVER let your opponent dictate your plan for you. Make him be the one to try to adapt to you.

Ray

Ray

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[Jackal]

Pvt.Tom,

I wish that my dad had the patience and interest to play me on these games. salute to both of you. Moving your infantry without the cover of smoke is suicide. Use small teams or sharpshooters to locate his defenses. Take a good look at your dad's defenses during the next game and take note as to how his defensive strategy takes shape, i.e. pairing of tanks, what he hides behind, typical defensive setups using his armor, whether or not his tanks are being defending with infantry, etc. Also, keep in mind that when your opponent is definitely on the defense. . .move in bounding overwatch formations with both armor and infantry. move one element and let it set up a field of view/fire over an area then "bound" the next team forward. Moving the infantry before the armor and letting the armor provide the bulk of the overwatching fires.

[Francesco]

Pvt.Tom,

remember that Panther is ALWAYS superior to Shermans (76) only if you keep them in a great distance from them.

Bye!

Francesco

[scooleen]

why not have him attack for a change? It would help both of your strategies considerably to try different engagements. Just defending all the time, although has some inherent advantages isnt always the best way. Look what happened to the French?

That is really cool that your dad even knows how to use a computer to play a game. You are lucky.

[StellarRat]

An experienced human is much harder to beat than the computer AI. The rule of thumb is that it takes about 2:1 (offense to defense) in resources to have any chance of winning. You will need more points than the default setup is going to give you if you are going up against an experienced player (I think the default is 1.5 to 1.) I'd try giving youself twice the points of your Dad if you want a close game. Generally, 4:1 is required to guarantee a victory.

[This message has been edited by StellarRat (edited 12-26-2000).]

[Jasper]

Ditto the "I wish my dad would do that".

While you're learning tactics - learn the man as well. Similar to what Jackal said.

Deception is an integral part of warfare - Can you outsmart him? Feints?

Have some fun. Let the first three turns pass and show him nothing - will he come looking for you? Load up all your forces on one side or the other and storm a small area. If he defends something that you never attack, then those forces might as well not exist.

[Pvt.Tom]

Tnaks, I will try some of these ideas out but the man is a rock, he always keeps a unit or 2 hidden so right when I think I have him he opens up with something new. Just the other day I was about to kill his last Sherman when BAM, a recoiless Rifle takes out 3 tanks in 1 turn, what he &*^%$^&, that thing fires way too fast, he seems to have the best luck.

Thanks Pvt.Tom

[Basebal351]

Pvt. Tom, secretely give yourself a 50% Handicap without telling ANYONE...then, proceed to purchase 5-7 King Tigers. Knock the tar out of his Shermans. Wash, rinse, repeat. That will put your old man in his place

"and the man is a rock" -Pvt. Tom

LOL!! Your dad sounds so cool. Is he looking to adopt?!?

The guy whose father hasn't played videogames since the early days of Tetris,

Jim

[Jackal]

When you are setting up the battle, you practically know the number of points that he has to play with. Construct a possibilities outline of what he might purchase for the next game by what you already know that he likes to use. Buy your forces to counter these "assumptions". From what you have killed or seen...What are his ratios of armor to infantry? Does he lead you into "kill sacks" or ambush areas? With the Recoilless Rifel incident - is this a common factor in his defense? Prepare for that. Keep in mind that he seems to always have something in reserve, Where does he typically place this element? When he is taking out your armor where is your infantry? Do you use reconnaissance? Sharpshooters? As for artillery, how do you use it on the battlefield? Have you tried using Hetzer's?? In a current PBEM I am being slaughtered by one of these.

From your comments you seem to be basing your strategy around your armor and worrying yourself to death about his. Create a force to counter his threats, use reconnaissance across the battlefield and try to locate a weak point; as stated above, feints could benefit you. Last comment, are you using the terrain to your favor? Pick an area on the map that you feel would provide the best terrain to benefit YOUR attack.

[Gen. Sosaboski]

Pvt. Tom,

I wholly support the Hetzer idea. I usually play Americans/Poles and find myself screwed when an Hetzer decides to find a nice hull down position with good LOS. The only ways to kill it are airstrikes, tungsten, or flank shots.

Keep your tanks in a formation. A wedge shape works nice with turreted tanks, IMO. Just the other day I had three Stuarts take out 4 Lynxs and 2 75mm armored cars when they were in a wedge. Each tank supports the other.

Bombard possible concealment spots with light arty (81mm, 75mm). This usually works on making gun or other AT weapon crews abandon their weapons.

Buy an high quality platoon and flank the enemy with it. Give it an infantry AT weapon and watch the enemy go nuts trying to counter your forward thrust and your elite troops.

And, above all, KEEP MOVING under fire. Get into cover, and MOVE AGAIN. If the enemy has tanks, and you have none, get up close and personal. The Allies have no Nahvertiswhateverthehellyoucallthem on their tanks. Get real close on the sides, the tank will put itself in danger of being knocked out if it fires its main gun too close, and the tracks and engine compartment are quite vulnerable.

Hope these help.