MadMatt - Disappointed you're trying to make money off us...

[Wayne]

Iggi, I could'nt agree with you more. Nowhere did Madmatt say that he was charging anyone for anything.

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Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight.

[jpinard]

Brian Rock,

I cannot release the names unless they say I can. And since these two swore me to secrecy in the first place, I doubt they'd change their minds since this would put a HUGE strain on some relationships.

I can say that my credability does mean a lot to me, and I don't just make stuff up here on the web. Do a search on my name and you'll see I'm more honorable than most people you'll find on a forum...

-Jeff Pinard

HHMI

[chasd]

as long as i dont have to pay for it, i dont care

[BomBeer]

I think you missed what jpinard is saying in the first post. I don't think he's saying its wrong to make money from his website

I think he is upset that madmatt is trying to make more money by posting that a mod is there and its really not there causing people to check his site more than once a day. I don't take any sides on this. I normally go to his site first then here. So it don't really matter to me.

BomBeer

[Brian Rock]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I cannot release the names unless they say I can. . And since these two swore me to secrecy in the first place, I doubt they'd change their minds since this would put a HUGE strain on some relationships.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not calling you a liar. I can accept that you've heard something from two people. But you don't have to be a liar to be wrong. It's possible that the story you've been told may not be 100% accurate.

Only having second-hand evidence makes it pretty hard to evaluate. Can you see how it weakens the credibility of a case when there are no witnesses prepared to come forward?

Also I still don't understand what Matt could threaten anybody *with*.

ALso, I didn't abuse you, so maybe you could drop the "idiot" comments in future.

[jpinard]

Geez Iggi calm down,

My main problem is that Matt has not always been honest with us.

I have no problem with him making money. That's great...

But if he holds back mods (like he HAS done in the past) AND he's MAKING MONEY - then there's something wrong with that. If he holds back mods to generate higher hits (which he admitted to me he did), then that is called being GREEDY. That is NOT the best thing for the game, because all it does is irritate people. They go to his site, and it says come back another day - what you don't see is: "because I wanna rake in more cash".

THAT IS MY PROBLEM, and NOTHING ELSE.

Like I said, he's admitted that to me, and so has a contributor to Combat Mission. If Combat Mission were #1 on his agenda and NOT money, he would not have ever held back mods for release (except the ones that needed fixing of course).

Matt does great work, and he can make millions if he wants. Just don't hold back mods that are ready for release, and always give credit where credit's due.

[jpinard]

Brian,

I'm not sure either. In their e-mail's they just said they didn't want to:

1. "get in trouble with Matt",

and the others were:

2. "Matt will get really angry if he knew I sent you this mod"...

3. "Matt will be mad at me, so don't e-mail anyone with my mod"...

Brian, sorry about calling you an idiot.

These are straight from their e-mails, so this is why I said strong-arm tactics. I never made a fuss, as I was glad to get the mods and not have to wait until he got around to posting them.

[Mace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jpinard:

You people must not know html, because what he puts in every day would take someone like myself about 15 minutes per day to do. And I'm not a pro.

But if no one wants to see what's going on here then just close the thread. TO reiterate points see here:

1. Work per day: 20 minutes - unless he is really slow.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Web site maintenance is more than 20 minutes of code setting: it's also preparing graphics, checking links, adopting and manipulating content, and continually revising and developing the site to be more user friendly.

HTML maintenance is only one facet of web site administration. Just because you know HTML does not make you an effective web page designer!!!!!!

Now the thread can be closed!

Mace

[This message has been edited by Mace (edited 09-19-2000).]

[Fred]

jp,

that gets annoying.

By constantly restating that you think that Madmatt is "greedy" you only prove that you don't listen to others who object your opinion (like I said in my earlier post).

There is no evidence other then your "witnesses", that Madmatt threatens anyone.

If this would be the case, why do all modders post their work again and again at CMHQ?

I guess, you have a personal problem with Madmatt, but this is neither the place, nor the audience to make a personal crusade.

At least, I know what Madmatt has done for the community. But I fail to see what you have done.

Only accusations without any hard facts or evidence.

No mod maker here jumps in to verify your reproaches. Strange.

Fred

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"I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission

[This message has been edited by Fred (edited 09-19-2000).]

[jpinard]

Mace, considering I create sites myself from scratch and maintain them (for games also). I think I know what I'm talking about.

You certainly don't know what you're talking about. So don't embarass yourself unless you have something decent to say, OK?

Unless Matt is using "Notepad" to maintain his site it's not that bad.

Mace, About checking links... Ummm, all current web publishing software does that for you. So, unless clicking a button takes an hour, my statements still stand. So, the thread should still stay open.

[iggi]

jpinard, if CMHQ is using marketing to survive and is not charging you, there is nothing wrong. So you have to wait. So you can't have your mod for free *right now*. So CMHQ can go out of business to serve me myself and I right now for free.

CMHQ is giving us great stuff at a decent pace for FREEEEEEE. I can live with that.

[iggi]

You have to care for the greater good of CMHQ, and Madmatt and Fionn. We all win in the end.

[jpinard]

Matt's site is just about the only site for hosting mods, and is the most well-known. Not much of a choice there.

I just think it's sad that Matt would make such a fuss over not making money off us, and his tactics for doing so. I'm not jealous at all. I had similar choices when I hosted, and chose not to seek money.

And Fred and you other angry Matt-bots, if you were in my shoes you wouldn't want to wait either. I'm 31 years old, I have Cystic Fibrosis, I almost died last year from it (was in a coma for 2 weeks), and each day means something special to me. I'm already 1 year past my life-expectancy. So being taunted by Matt and his mod-posting techniques, and to hear it's fueled by money pisses me off. Unfortunately I don't have all the time in the world, and my days I have left, I like playing Combat Mission when I'm not with my wife and family.

[Mace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jpinard:

Mace, considering I create sites myself from scratch and maintain them (for games also). I think I know what I'm talking about.

You certainly don't know what you're talking about. So don't embarass yourself unless you have something decent to say, OK?

Unless Matt is using "Notepad" to maintain his site it's not that bad.

Mace, About checking links... Ummm, all current web publishing software does that for you. So, unless clicking a button takes an hour, my statements still stand. So, the thread should still stay open.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me, MATE!

I happen to get paid for maintaining a government site (it's part of my job)

www.dhs.vic.gov.au/housing

and I also have developed and now maintain a site for a friend's business

www.users.bigpond.com/smmodels/

I think I'm well placed to make the statement that I did, and I would suggest you get your facts right before you mouth off!

btw, keep going mate, you're obviously seeking to annoy as many people today as possible!

Mace

[iggi]

It's clearer now what's bothering you. I wish you the best.

[Fred]

jp,

sorry to hear this.

I see why you are impatient, but with all the already available mods around you CAN play CM (I would even play it every day w/o any mods).

Fred

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"I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission

[jpinard]

Thanks Iggi.

Mace,

It should be extremely evident to you being a great web designer, that the amount of updates Matt does per day (if one is skilled) does not take that much time and work. I use Frontpage 2000, and much of what you talked about taking time is automated... the rest just takes thought.

[Aussie Smith]

Cheesh

I go home for dinner and intelligence seems to disappear from some on this board.

Steve closed the previous thread because of ill-informed commentary - now it appears its back.

Look Matt is perfectly entitled to receive gratuity for advertising on his site - funny it’s called free enterprise.

He isn't stealing from you/us or me - bloody hell he's doing us all a service - now get off your high horse - embargo Matt's site for all I care and stop trying to gain notoriety by posting inane drivel.

Hey, I know start up your own site so we can compare - I already know who will win that comp.

Craig

[jpinard]

Thanks Fred,

I do play no matter what. I have another disease called "I have to have the best". I update my computer constantly (to the chagrine of my wife), and always want everything graphically/sound-wise maxed out as a result. Hearing (or seeing pictures - in the case of the MDMP #2 POTD which we saw for so long before they were released) drives me nuts if I can't use it.

I also wanted to use the enhancements while I was still feeling good at the time I was seeing the pics. I couldn't see why he refused to release fully completed models for weeks, when they were obviously gorgeous and DONE. Well, we of course have the answers, but of course it was frustrating all the same.

Someone not having the time for posts is understandable, but finding out it was for money purposes just... well I've said it enough already.

[jpinard]

Craig (Aussie),

I didn't do this for notoriety. My interviews with Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes and Barbara Walters of 20/20 gave me more than I ever wanted. This little tiny board does nothing for notoriety - So your comment there is pretty stupid.

As I said a hundred times now, it's not the money (he can make millions, I don't care), it's with-holding mods for the SAKE of money.

[Seanachai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jpinard:

Brian,

I'm not sure either. In their e-mail's they just said they didn't want to:

1. "get in trouble with Matt",

and the others were:

2. "Matt will get really angry if he knew I sent you this mod"...

3. "Matt will be mad at me, so don't e-mail anyone with my mod"...

Brian, sorry about calling you an idiot.

These are straight from their e-mails, so this is why I said strong-arm tactics. I never made a fuss, as I was glad to get the mods and not have to wait until he got around to posting them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I would give a nod to anyone who's 'integrity' wouldn't allow them to compromise the confidences of others without their permission, I also have problems with anyone who has no qualms about casting doubts on another person's 'integrity' while using as their only evidence 'quoted evidence' from sources they 'cannot' reveal. I do not suggest that you are a liar, or that you've manufactured your claims. But your sudden show of disappointment with, and attacks against another member of this community (and that only after a number of more or less opinionated attacks by others), rings hollow with me when the whole basis for it is 'evidence' that only you possess (and, frankly, that we are only seeing your interpretation of, whatever the evidence might or might not be). This is not honourable. Without knowing who the individuals are, without knowing what in fact was said, why they said it, what they meant by it, etc. etc., then a very large number of people here are expected to judge Madmatt on the basis of out of context snippets of info that you interpret for them from unrevealed sources, and your interpretation states quite baldly (forgive the pun), that Madmatt lacks integrity. I do not buy this, and I question your motives for doing so. I would hesitate to impugn another like this on the basis you've used. Frankly, and in my opinion only, perhaps, you do yourself as great a disservice as you're attempting to do to Madmatt. You are only throwing at him the mud you are standing in yourself.

As for your general comments, I have problems with some of your arguments. What, exactly, can Madmatt possibly be using as a means of 'strongarming' people? His displeasure? It's possible, but I can't remember ever seeing Madmatt get on anyone's case on this board; even when they were way out of line, he more often used humour than abuse, I've never seen him make any attempt to 'get' anyone or discredit them with the community. Indeed, in many threads I've seen him show up and make sincere efforts at peace-keeping. So what could he do if not try to 'get even with them'? Not host their Mod? Who cares? They can find other places to host them, put them up themselves, or just forget about it. Are they receiving any real remuneration for doing these mods? No. It's not like they're endangering income or anything if CMHQ wouldn't host them. So, in the end, it probably boils down to not wanting to endanger their 'relationship' with Madmatt. In your posts, you've been at some pains to point this aspect out as though it involved something more disturbing than 'Matt will be irritated with me'. If I give, share, or tell something to a someone, whatever my motivation or expectations may be, and ask them to let it go no further, and they turn around and immediately pass the same on to someone else, then I'm going to be irritated with them. I was recently given a scenario to beta-test/play for the hell of it, and asked by the person who gave it to me not to spread info about it all over the Board, as they were not the creator, and until it was released the creator didn't want the scenario discussed or spoiled. I've kept it to myself (and still am). I didn't try to attribute dark motives to these people, and I could ask myself what real harm I'd suffer if I blurted out everything that had anything to do with the scenario. But I also figured I didn't want to piss off the scenario creator, nor the person who passed it on to me, not because I feared dark retributions or reprisals, but because they'd have been angry with me, quite rightly, because I'd have behaved like an arsehole, having gone back on my word not to do something that I'd told them I wouldn't.

I never doubted for one second of any of the time I've gone to CMHQ, with it's advertising banners and such, that the people running the board were making some kind of fee for running the board. I also seriously doubted that it was their only job or source of income. Do I feel 'betrayed or used' because Madmatt, or Fionn (and I'm sure TGN is getting their money, by the way), were making a dime off my visit? Nope. Has Madmatt ever 'held back mods in order to increase hits?' Couldn't venture a guess, and wouldn't give a good goddamn if he had. My universe doesn't revolve around the availability of mods, and the presence or absence of said free, user-created ehancements wouldn't make the slightest ripple in my day. Given that Madmatt constantly posts as to the availability of such things, if I'm interested, I'll go check them out. If they're not there, it won't disrupt me in the least. Is Madmatt manipulating these things to increase his hits? Again, I have only your 'intrepretation' as evidence of this. Even if it was completely, totally, and shamelessly true, I have no doubts that Madmatt is a longtime and serious supporter of this game, and I'm not in a position to compromise my sense of outrage about the horrors that surround me in the world by striking a noble pose on this issue and decrying the worldly cynicism that such a betrayal of my 'hobby' implies.

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After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads.

[jpinard]

Well seanachi, that is your opinion.

I have posted my opinion, and I have good reason and cause for posting my dismay. I'm disappointed you seem to think I have no right to post something I felt a little disturbing. Heavens knows at least not complaining aobut the barrell of a gun being 1 mm too short or something stupid like that.

Any way, if you want things verified ask Matt. If he's honest he'll back up everything I said. There's your proof. He was honest with me, so I don't know why he wouldn't be honest with you.

[pzvg]

Since when is getting paid for site traffic illegal or immoral? I've sent stuff to Matt, he holds it while he checks it out,and sometimes tweaks it to work better, I truely doubt that Matt,or anyone else on this board could "make" me do something, (It would be funny to see them try) JP, somehow to me this sounds like possible Sh@t-stirring, or perhaps a backhand at someone due to personal differences, in either case, it has no point on this board, and should be dismissed as such.

In summation,your argument lacks meaning,support, and validity, therefore one must ask, why start a fight you have no hope of winning?

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Pzvg

"Confucious say, it is better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"

[Guest rune]

Didn't know my skills as a soccer referee would have to come into play on this forum. I have learned to keep a neutral eye and judge for myself, then live with my decision.

Point #1. Matt making money off of CMHQ. Hmm, as far as I know, he has paid for the server the annex sits on, paid for the chat software, pays for bandwidth. So far, income in is zero. Hmmm....

Point #2. Holding back Mods. Lets see, according to you 20 minutes to post a day. OK, how many screen shots have you made, how many articles have you edited, where is your mod article? So, there is a LOT of behinds the scenes work involved. Give credit where it is due.

Point #3. Life. Lets look at point 1 and 2, not paid a cent yet, put out his own money, and believe it or not, has a life. So, he didnt get to posting a mod right away. SO?

Point #4. You state: "I won't even tell you the people INSIDE BTS (contributors) he has clamped down on. They even felt it was unfair." Let's look to see who is inside BTS. Steve, Charles, KD, and Bil. I haven't talked to Bil yet, but the other three have no idea of what you are talking about.

Point #5. Each time someone made a good point, you attacked them. Calling them stupid or they don't know what they were talking about. Each time you were wrong. Yellow Card to you, unsporting behavior.

Point #6. Hmm, do I know what I am talking about? Well, most here know I am a beta tester, and a programmer, along with researching for CM2. So, maybe I see more what is going on then you do?

Point #7. "always give credit where credit's due" I have ALWAYS seen Matt give credit to everyone involved. Searching the forums here, I see at least 10 times he gives credit to the mod makers.

Steve, Charles, lock this one up. This is a waste of bandwidth. To anyone who has a complaint, here is a radical concept. EMAIL the person. Why put it on a forum? Seanachai has it right...I gave him the scenario to test. If he distributed it, without it being a final version, I would be upset. Why? Cause I have their word they would not release it. I helped tweak the scenario, and think I got it right, but want an outside opinion incase I want to tweak it a little more. Wild Bill trusts me enough to trust my judgement, and he knows I won't go giving it out all over til he thinks it is ready. Matt may not think the mod is ready, and I have not seen him be anything but honest with an author yet.

Email your complaint to Matt, get his side, then boycott or support him. Having it posted here stinks to high heaven.

Rune

[marcusjm]

My 2 öre on the subject.

These bad vibe threads are really bringing down the mood of this forum. I think BTS should be faster to lock up these threads.

(like they did today for instance). You can generally sence where the thread is heading from the first post.

In addition they should delete the threads completelly to make the board easier to read.

I want the friendly tone that was here before the release back.

Marcus