Cirrus Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) I had to run road front of bunker today. I am very "hobbyist" level player altough I have owned these games loong time and seems that I do not understand yet how I tell my platoons to run "safely" in certain situations. Let me try to explain the situation: There was bunker on hill. Let's say it is north direction. There was road directly going east-west direction directly front of bunker then road curves to north so that you end up 80m west of bunker. My guys are on south side slope below the road so bunker can not see me. There is also slope on road north (and right hand side when running west curving north)all way to the target point. Bunker has been smoked, My intention is to use quick command to run on the road partially also covered by slope to west side of bunker while smoke lasts. What a diffucult task that was. Platoon idiots did not want to stay on the road but some guys tried intentionally always go up the slope and let the bunker massacre them for sure when they momentarily have vision. Yellow quick-line was all the time perfectly aligned on the road. So this lead me to do some testing from save. 1. Quick command perfectly middle of the road. Half of the guys go from road up the slope and offer full body to be shot 2. Quick command perfectly middle of the road + target arcs on waypoints so that direction is towards bunker and over the bunker. Some guys go and offer full body to be shot. 3. Quick command perfectly middle of the road + target arcs on waypoints so that direction is towards bunker, but not reaching bunker. Some guys go and offer full body to be shot. 4. Quick command perfectly middle of the road + facing command towards bunker on every waypoint. And behold. This seemed to do the trick. Only one guy tried very briefly their luck on the slope and offer full body to be shot at. Now the question is: What command there is to tell my guys that bunker is huge danger? You all saw it 2 minutes ago before you smoked it. When you run, run in a way that you absolutely positively reveal least of you to that direction. In practice this case just stay on road and do not climb the slope. My answer I managed to test today seems to be waypoint facing command towards the danger. Is this the official way? Thanks! P.S. This is quite general CM2 question I guess. But game I was playing today was Fortress Italy Edited January 21 by Cirrus typos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Can we assume that you have first split the squad(s) into teams? And also have used short waypoints, so the troops do not have the luxury of plotting their own route? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Erwin said: Can we assume that you have first split the squad(s) into teams? And also have used short waypoints, so the troops do not have the luxury of plotting their own route? No we can't assume anything. There was no splitting. I do not understand why it would make any difference on running safest route. Especially if there is command to tell direction of danger. (like I assume now facing is). If it makes AI select safer route then I have to do splitting cases like this. What is short? If it is 20m then maybe not. But it was so short that quick line never even crossed the slope, but stayed on road. If very short waypoint interval helps in this I have to try that too. I am under impression that dudes can try to stop on waypoints so too many waypoints could slow them down. Which would also be bad in this case. Edited January 21 by Cirrus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cirrus said: Especially if there is command to tell direction of danger. (like I assume now facing is). I'm interested in this. I've always assumed face is just to point tanks, guns and yes infantry towards something you think they'll want to shoot at*. Which isn't that far away from what you're saying. But I wouldn't have thought of facing your guys at every waypoint. EDIT: * or present their front armour. Edited January 21 by Vacillator 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSarge Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 You're mentioning platoon instead of squad. By any chance are you using a group movement to move all of the elements of the platoon together (i.e. double clicking on the platoon HQ and issuing a quick command)? Group movement can easily cause undesirable behavior, you have to check the path lines for each of the platoon's sub-units to be sure they're following a safe path. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 12 minutes ago, OldSarge said: You're mentioning platoon instead of squad. By any chance are you using a group movement to move all of the elements of the platoon together (i.e. double clicking on the platoon HQ and issuing a quick command)? Group movement can easily cause undesirable behavior, you have to check the path lines for each of the platoon's sub-units to be sure they're following a safe path. Well I had two squads doing the running and I used them separately. I should have written more clearly that. 2 hours ago, Vacillator said: I'm interested in this. I've always assumed face is just to point tanks, guns and yes infantry towards something you think they'll want to shoot at*. Which isn't that far away from what you're saying. But I wouldn't have thought of facing your guys at every waypoint. EDIT: * or present their front armour. I did bit more testing and I do not think anymore that facing helps. I was running (quick) along low rock fence and all dudes wanted jump over other side where german 4-5 recon squads were firing. Dudes had facing orders all the way. Team size was 3 and all jumped to wrong side. However I did not test "very short" waypoints at this time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 24 minutes ago, OldSarge said: Group movement can easily cause undesirable behavior, Most definitely, and it's easily done by accident. 6 minutes ago, Cirrus said: I did bit more testing and I do not think anymore that facing helps. I was running (quick) along low rock fence and all dudes wanted jump over other side where german 4-5 recon squads were firing. Can you post a screenshot including their 'way-paths'? No worries if not... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 3 hours ago, Cirrus said: There was no splitting. I do not understand why it would make any difference on running safest route. A larger unit will spread over more real estate and is usually less efective and gets KIA much quicker. Experienced players split. 3 hours ago, Cirrus said: What is short? If it is 20m then maybe not. Waypoints may need to be as short as one can make them in order to guarantee a unit follows the path you want. One cannot rely on the Tac AI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 15 hours ago, Vacillator said: Can you post a screenshot including their 'way-paths'? No worries if not... Image below. Possible explanations for their behavior to jump fence: AI might be avoiding those other guys hugging the wall. Although they seem fine running over sometimes the guy lying down close to wall. If environments seem strange to CMFI, this is campaign map from Raiding Party V0.2.cam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) Now I tested the short waypoint behavior. Routing wise it works yes! But it has the downside that it slows down running as they stop on every waypoint of quick command. But I guess conclusion is to run safe side, use many waypoints. At least when there are "obstacles" in some form. Edited January 22 by Cirrus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 47 minutes ago, Cirrus said: Raiding Party V0.2.cam I'm not seeing that in my CMFI campaigns folder, and I have all of the add-ons. Is it available somewhere other than FGM, as I can't see it there either? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 1 minute ago, Vacillator said: I'm not seeing that in my CMFI campaigns folder, and I have all of the add-ons. Is it available somewhere other than FGM, as I can't see it there either? It is the all in one project. I guess it has threads in every subforum, but last time I clicked link in BN-thread: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 57 minutes ago, Cirrus said: I tested the short waypoint behavior. Routing wise it works yes! But it has the downside that it slows down running as they stop on every waypoint of quick command. One often has to work around the CM engine/Tac AI limitations. But, splltting into teams and using short waypoints works. One simply has to allow for the extra time the troops need. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 16 minutes ago, Cirrus said: It is the all in one project. Interesting, thanks. I was aware of the all-in-ones (I've even directed people to them) but hadn't downloaded as I thought I already had pretty much everything. Obviously that's not the case... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 This is a very old issue, and the problem is that the game does not distinguish between different parts of each square as long as troops are moving. So there's no "run on this side of the wall". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurian52 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 7 hours ago, Vacillator said: Interesting, thanks. I was aware of the all-in-ones (I've even directed people to them) but hadn't downloaded as I thought I already had pretty much everything. Obviously that's not the case... I've downloaded everything from the Scenario depot, plus all the mods I want. So I thought I had everything. But if there are scenarios and campaigns in the all-in-ones that aren't up on the Scenario depot then obviously I have more downloading to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Just now, Centurian52 said: But if there are scenarios and campaigns in the all-in-ones that aren't up on the Scenario depot then obviously I have more downloading to do. I did a first test with the 3.7GB CMBN all-in-one, looking for campaigns and scenarios. Numbers, not quality of course, but who knows. I had several campaigns that weren't in the all-in-one, it had a couple that I didn't. I now have them . I had a few scenarios that it didn't have, it had over a hundred scenarios (or versions of) that I didn't. I now have them as well . One reason I can think of for some of this is that I previously didn't download H2H-only battles as I didn't play PBEMs. But that's mostly what I do now. I'll proceed with the other title all-in-ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurian52 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Vacillator said: I did a first test with the 3.7GB CMBN all-in-one, looking for campaigns and scenarios. Numbers, not quality of course, but who knows. I had several campaigns that weren't in the all-in-one, it had a couple that I didn't. I now have them . I had a few scenarios that it didn't have, it had over a hundred scenarios (or versions of) that I didn't. I now have them as well . One reason I can think of for some of this is that I previously didn't download H2H-only battles as I didn't play PBEMs. But that's mostly what I do now. I'll proceed with the other title all-in-ones. Alright, I'm downloading the CMBN, CMSF2, and CMRT all in ones. But I cannot seem to find the CMFB or CMFI all in one threads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSarge Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Centurian52 said: Alright, I'm downloading the CMBN, CMSF2, and CMRT all in ones. But I cannot seem to find the CMFB or CMFI all in one threads. You can download them straight from the source KI OB shared site. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 12 hours ago, Centurian52 said: I cannot seem to find the CMFB or CMFI all in one threads. Yes, they're all on the site OldSarge linked to above. The link is also in 37mm's footer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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